[How To] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?)

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yujungchang
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[How To] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?)

Post by yujungchang » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:36 am

One of the notorious issue for the intel based TS-x51, TS-x53 or similar systems in that era is the degraded LPC clock. The is for a real dead system (no beep, no video, nothing blinks, except fan/front panel is on), not the corrupted BIOS/DOM or things can be fixed by going to the BIOS/SSH. This rework is a "temporary" fix to workaround the LPC clock issue and its not going to fix the already degraded LPC clock, which will only get worst over time even with the rework. It works on the TS-453 Pro (with Intel J1900 CPU) I have so far and will work on the TS-x51(+) (J1900/J1800) as well. I will receive a dead TS-451+ next week from a nice Ebay seller and can update the status after I received it (Update: Received the system, but the LPC clock wasn't bad enough and it was failed with one bad DIMM slot :' show signs of the degraded clock ~ pretty sure the LPC clock will fail eventually, but no need to rework for now). As a disclaimer, I'm not an electrical engineer, but do work on the BIOS for years.

Basically I think it's the same issue as the 100 Ohm resistor rework for the Synology, except pulling it to ground. If you look at this video (
https://youtu.be/Y8_emfoR_MI?t=853 ), maybe the p-channel is bad/shorted in the Qnap while the n-channel is bad/shorted in the synology case. Regardless, if you still have the dead Qnap, there's no risk for trying it out. Don't PM me for this, except if you want to pay for my remote consultation or build up your confidence, I can certainly entertain that. But really the summary in the link below should contain everything you need to know for the rework. Also according to the comment in that video, some reported it works for years after the rework and some reported the system died after 6 months, so don't count this as a way to get a cheap NAS, as YMMV. I would recommend to turn it on only when you need to use it even if you don't have the problem currently or it works again after the rework. If you plan to buy used systems, look up the CPU first and avoid all these models, including the Synology. With the temperature gets colder now, I felt I ran into more boot failures.

QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=135089&start=150#p767546
Scope or measure the LPC-CN1(10-pin connector, next to 4-pin COM1 connector), pin 1 (LPC CLK, normal ~1.7V)
If the voltage is > 2.2V, solder 100 Ohm (or 80~350 Ohm) between pin 1 (LPC CLK) and ground (pin 8 or 10).
If the voltage is < 1V, solder 100 Ohm to a 3.3V pin(since this does not apply to me, someone as would have to spend time to find it).
If you still do not see a correct system temp/fan speed, try a lower resistor value, like 80~95 Ohm.
Soldering a header to it (or just the 2 pins) might be a good idea, since you can swap out different values easily when needed (or when it failed again).
[Update] Saw this youtube video after I posted this https://youtu.be/c5k8FWe6u60 Apparently he went through the same debug couple months earlier than me and recorded his finding as well.

Also the early symptoms of this issue could exhibit as long boot time (13 min vs 5 min in a normal boot with a clean install), missing drive bay(s) - at least confirmed on the TS-251(+), plus "0°C/0°F" System Temperature and "4294967..." RPM Sys Fan speed (failed LPC to the SIO). You can confirm the failure by using a coreboot tool (https://www.coreboot.org/Superiotool), superiotool to dump the SIO configuration.
superiotool.7z
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Last edited by yujungchang on Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:58 am, edited 27 times in total.
[How to] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=157459
[How to] Debug the SATA backplane power issue (models w/ a brick power supply viewtopic.php?f=50&t=157649
[How to] Enable onboard SATA connectors on the x53/x51 (Total 4+2 SATA drives for a 4 bay model) viewtopic.php?f=97&t=157816

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dolbyman
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Re: [HowTo] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap (2014~2016)

Post by dolbyman » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:58 am

Don't worry , nobody will PM you .. PM's have been disabled years ago

Very often those things are caused by pennies worth of parts .. finding them is the difficult story (see the mostfet issues of backplanes)

j.schulz
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Re: [HowTo] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap (2014~2016?)

Post by j.schulz » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:31 am

Hi,

i would like to try to repair my broken 453 pro (happened yesterday) it reported system fan problem and after a reboot its dead in endless system booting.
Where do i need to connect the 100 ohm resistor? Can you please explain?


Best Regards Jens

yujungchang
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Re: [HowTo] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap (2014~2016?)

Post by yujungchang » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:44 am

The detail is in the link from the original post
yujungchang wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:36 am
QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=135089&start=150#p767546
Scope or measure the LPC-CN1(10-pin connector, next to 4-pin COM1 connector), pin 1 (LPC CLK, normal ~1.7V)
If the voltage is ~2.4V, solder 100 Ohm between pin 1 (LPC CLK) and ground (pin 8 or 10).
If the voltage is <1V, solder 100 Ohm to a 3.3V pin(since this does not apply to me, someone would have to spend time to find/test it).
[How to] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=157459
[How to] Debug the SATA backplane power issue (models w/ a brick power supply viewtopic.php?f=50&t=157649
[How to] Enable onboard SATA connectors on the x53/x51 (Total 4+2 SATA drives for a 4 bay model) viewtopic.php?f=97&t=157816

j.schulz
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Re: [HowTo] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap (2014~2016?)

Post by j.schulz » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:13 pm

Hi,

i could finally repair my 453 Pro with a 100 Ohm Resistor, thank you yujungchang, with your informations it was possible
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=135089&start=150#p767546


Best Regards

mathr
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Re: [How To] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?)

Post by mathr » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:44 am

this also works very well with TS-251 !
i could revive it with that 100 Ohms soldered between pin 1 and pin 8


NAS booted properly, FAN RPM and Temperature OK. Disk in Bay 2 online !

Many thanks !! you are a hero !

kirovoleg
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Re: [How To] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?)

Post by kirovoleg » Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:15 am

I can confirm It works on a 451+

A few hours ago it beeped indicating a Fan error. Fan was spinning, but on the management web it indicated no rpms and no temps.
After rebooting it refused to boot, with status led off, blinking LAN, blue USB on and HDD3 red, with and without disks.

I measured the voltage between pins 1 and 8 and had 2 volts. Placed a 100ohm resistor on a breadboard and connected some cables to the pins and then it booted normally.

Thank you for these instructions!

rexxe
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Re: [How To] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?)

Post by rexxe » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:53 am

mathr wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:44 am
this also works very well with TS-251 !
i could revive it with that 100 Ohms soldered between pin 1 and pin 8


NAS booted properly, FAN RPM and Temperature OK. Disk in Bay 2 online !

Many thanks !! you are a hero !
I also have a dead TS-251. I just tested the voltage between pins 1 and 8 and only got about 0.68V. What voltage did you get between them on your TS-251? Most of the LPC pins are 0.68V with only one coming in around 1.3V.

Thanks!

yujungchang
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Re: [How To] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?)

Post by yujungchang » Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:55 am

rexxe wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:53 am

I also have a dead TS-251. I just tested the voltage between pins 1 and 8 and only got about 0.68V. What voltage did you get between them on your TS-251? Most of the LPC pins are 0.68V with only one coming in around 1.3V.
The voltage for the LPC bus should be 3.3V and they are running at 25 MHz on the system. If you consider 50% duty cycle for a clock, that will result as 1.65V when you measure that voltage. In the LPC CLK failure case, I initially thought was only the LPC CLK is impacted (at least on my system) and the result of that is the measured voltage on the CLK became higher than 2V (hypothetically it can be lower than 1V like the Synology failures). My failure was excessive voltage pull up, so really can't see much if you just measure the voltage on those pull up pins. On my failed system, the remaining LPC bus pins are all at 3.3V if I remembered correctly. Since I didn't put a scope on other LPC pins, maybe the other LPC bus pins can NOT get it to low voltage state either, like below 0.5V. However my system works after lowering down the LPC CLK, I didn't bother to scope all other pins. Your failure is exactly the opposite of ours and might be similar to the Synology failure.

For the starter, I would check the pin 8 and see if that pin has no voltage, comparing with other ground, like connector metal casing, screw holes on the board, etc. If the ground is correct and your measurement is also correct as you described, you might want to check your 3.3V supply first. If the 3.3V power supply is still good, than that means all your LPC bus might be shorted to ground somewhere or most likely shorted to ground by all your LPC bus pins inside the CPU. I'm guessing you'll probably need to pull all those pins to 3.3V with a resistor(like 100~400 Ohms) if the 3.3V is still good. It would be better if you use a scope. If you don't, I guess you can probably start with 400 Ohm pull up to all those pins blindly and gradually lower down to 100 Ohm and see if any of them help.

On the LPC pin header, usually they should have one for 3.3V power and maybe that is the one you measured 1.3V. Also to find out which pins are used by the LPC bus, you can easily find the Fintek datasheet online and measure which pin of the LPC bus is connected to that header. Ruled out one by one, then you can find the possible candidate for that 3.3V pin from a power supply. If that 1.3V pin is indeed your 3.3V, then you'll need to find other onboard 3.3V voltage regulator and hook it up from there (or beef up that 3.3V to maintain enough voltage level).

Those are my thought on your issue and purely my speculation, so perform at YOUR OWN RISK and consult with others that know more about electronic circuit than you and me.
Last edited by yujungchang on Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[How to] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=157459
[How to] Debug the SATA backplane power issue (models w/ a brick power supply viewtopic.php?f=50&t=157649
[How to] Enable onboard SATA connectors on the x53/x51 (Total 4+2 SATA drives for a 4 bay model) viewtopic.php?f=97&t=157816

rexxe
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Re: [How To] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?)

Post by rexxe » Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:19 am

yujungchang wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:55 am
For the starter, I would check the pin 8 and see if that pin has no voltage, comparing with other ground, like connector metal casing, screw holes on the board, etc. If the ground is correct and your measurement is also correct as you described, you might want to check your 3.3V supply first. If the 3.3V power supply is still good, than that means all your LPC bus might be shorted to ground somewhere or most likely shorted to ground by all your LPC bus pins inside the CPU. I'm guessing you'll probably need to pull all those pins to 3.3V with a resistor(like 100~400 Ohms) if the 3.3V is still good. It would be better if you use a scope. If you don't, I guess you can probably start with 400 Ohm pull up to all those pins blindly and gradually lower down to 100 Ohm and see if any of them help.
The grounds are correct at pins 8 and 10, both showing 0 when measured against the screw hole pad. All other pins are 0.68V except pin 3 which which is the 1.3V one.
yujungchang wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:55 am
On the LPC pin header, usually they should have one for 3.3V power and maybe that is the one you measured 1.3V. Also to find out which pins are used by the LPC bus, you can easily find the Fintek datasheet online and measure which pin of the LPC bus is connected to that header. Ruled out one by one, then you can find the possible candidate for that 3.3V pin from a power supply. If that 1.3V pin is indeed is your 3.3V, then you'll need to find other onboard 3.3V voltage regulator and hook it up from there (or beef up that 3.3V to maintain enough voltage level).
I found some other pins on the board registering 3.3V closer to where the power is coming in so I can try one of those. I suspect I have a short somewhere and this fix won't work anyway. I'm not a skilled enough EE to know how to find and fix the short. Thank you for your reply and help!

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Re: [How To] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?)

Post by mathr » Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:11 pm

rexxe wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:53 am

I also have a dead TS-251. I just tested the voltage between pins 1 and 8 and only got about 0.68V. What voltage did you get between them on your TS-251? Most of the LPC pins are 0.68V with only one coming in around 1.3V.

Thanks!
actually i measured 2.2 VDC with a true RMS multimeter Fluke 8060A

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Re: [How To] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?)

Post by Pesca65 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:01 pm

Hello everyone and congratulations on the forum.
Can this also be done with a TS-453Mini?
Thanks

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Re: [How To] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?)

Post by OneCD » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:22 am

Pesca65 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:01 pm
Can this also be done with a TS-453Mini?
Do you have a dead TS-453mini?

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

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Re: [How To] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?)

Post by Pesca65 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:15 pm

yes

yujungchang
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Re: [How To] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?)

Post by yujungchang » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:19 am

Pesca65 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:01 pm
Can this also be done with a TS-453Mini?
I saw the picture online and it seems you don't have the easy connector/pads to attach to.
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/images/ ... _board.jpg
I also noticed a component next to it looks like a TPM. The picture is too blurry to tell what that is. Look at it and search for that part number.
If it is indeed the TPM, then it's easier to attach the resistor there (IC legs are much larger.)
If it's not the TPM (or a component with the LPC interface), you'll have to solder directly to the tiny SIO legs. Won't be easy, unless you can find some components that the pins connected to.

Assume it uses the same Fintek SIO F71869AD, also checked the IC (TPM ?) next to it, circled in red
453mini.JPG
Fintek F71869AD datasheet
https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet ... 869AD.html
Fintek..JPG
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[How to] Recover no beep / dead Intel based Qnap x53/x51 (2014~2016?) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=157459
[How to] Debug the SATA backplane power issue (models w/ a brick power supply viewtopic.php?f=50&t=157649
[How to] Enable onboard SATA connectors on the x53/x51 (Total 4+2 SATA drives for a 4 bay model) viewtopic.php?f=97&t=157816

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