I think I have found a glitch in IP access security to my NAS

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david_denon
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I think I have found a glitch in IP access security to my NAS

Post by david_denon »

After having some initial setup issues with my new QNAS TS 451+, I located it in an upstairs cupboard (I propose to install some IP Cameras, hence its location) and used the spare network port to connect my Sonos Amp to the network, as I wanted this wired rather than wireless. This may not be the correct use of the second network connection, but my initial setup required me to connect the NAS direct to my Router because of some other problems, but then connected my switch to the second port and everything ran fine and allowed my computer and other accessories to connect to the Router / internet.
Initially I thought everything was OK, but then began to wonder why it kept asking to update my saved password every time I logged on. The IP Address did change from .....100 to .....125, which was no problem. A week or so later I could not access the NAS with the default password even though I had not changed it! I used the reset button and was able to log on, but the next day, the same thing happened. I reset again and then eventually found the Change Password option. I have had no issues since in logging on to the NAS. However, I somehow came across the fact that I could logon with the new password or the default (admin) password, which is worrying.
Not knowing why, I experimented by disconnecting the Sonos unit. This then dropped the ....125 IP Address and I had to use QFinder to ID the network port the NAS was on. It had gone back to ....100 and when logging in, it did not recognise my replacement password, but just the default one (admin).
It would appear the Sonos was actually connectioning to my network wirelessly and therefore giving two means of access to the NAS: One wired through the first port, the other wireless through the second port via the Sonos amp. This to my mind was therefore giving two login options, the wired and the wireless each having a different password. I have now removed the Sonos wired connection to the NAS and after updating the password, it no longer asks to update it, but it worries me that there is a g;itch here. I know this may be an odd or rare setup to have, but should I report this to Qnap?
Any thoughts/comments?
P3R
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Re: I think I have found a glitch in IP access security to my NAS

Post by P3R »

david_denon wrote:It would appear the Sonos was actually connectioning to my network wirelessly and therefore giving two means of access to the NAS: One wired through the first port, the other wireless through the second port via the Sonos amp.
If that's what happened it's a very much non-recommended network configuration.
This to my mind was therefore giving two login options, the wired and the wireless each having a different password.
A password is never used for logon by itself. It's always a username and password combination. Are you saying that the same NAS username have different passwords depending on which interface you access it by? If that's what you're saying, I find that very hard to believe and I think that you may have misunderstood something.

Maybe your NAS is remotely accessed by an intruder that changes your passwords, which confuses you? Or something else...

Looking at a previous post of yours I see that you've had network issues. Connecting mutiple Sonos devices wired in a switched environment is complicated as there's a high risk for creating loops, which is a terrible thing for a network. It could be that you have occasional broadcast storms taking out parts of your network and causing confusing behaviour. The issue have been discussed in the Sonos forum. To really solve such configurations you need at least one managed switch, a proper network design and configuring the Spanning Tree Protocol (STP) correctly. It's possible of course but unless being a network professional, it may be overwhelmingly complicated. If possible, it's much easier to only keep one central Sonos device wired as that would prevent any network loops.

If you want us to exactly understand your configuration you need to be much clearer on what your setup really looks like. Remember that we have absolutely no idea about anything in your house or network. A picture is often far better to describe how things are connected together in a network than text.

Feel free to report this to Qnap but you will need to explain this in detail to them as well for anybody to even understand the real issue.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
david_denon
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Re: I think I have found a glitch in IP access security to my NAS

Post by david_denon »

OK, thanks for the feedback. Having disconnected the Sonos unit from the NAS certainly appears to have resolved the issue. Not sure how I was loosing password access (user name was the same when entering either passwords). Never used a managed switch, but will see how things run for now. The earlier issues with the NAS not responding seamed to clear itself once i had done a firmware update. The NAS is currently direct wire to my TP Link Router along with the Sonos units in the living room, everything else connects to a switch in the study that is wired back to the Router or is wireless. I hope to install some IP Cams through a second Switch with POE in due course, connection the NAS in to this switch along with the cameras. This in tern being wired back to the Router.

Thanks again for your comments.
P3R
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Re: I think I have found a glitch in IP access security to my NAS

Post by P3R »

david_denon wrote:Having disconnected the Sonos unit from the NAS certainly appears to have resolved the issue.
Good. If it's a single Sonos then it wouldn't really have created a loop but having multiple NAS interfaces connected into the same network may give issues that are hard to troubleshoot.
Not sure how I was loosing password access (user name was the same when entering either passwords).
I'm sorry, I have no explanation for that.
Never used a managed switch, but will see how things run for now.
You most likely won't need it unless you want to use multiple wired Sonos devices, link aggregation or some other more complicated network design.
The earlier issues with the NAS not responding seamed to clear itself once i had done a firmware update.
Yes the odd symptoms may also have been caused by a combination of problems, like a corrupted firmware and your non-optimal network configuration with the Sonos on the second NAS LAN port.
I hope to install some IP Cams through a second Switch with POE in due course, connection the NAS in to this switch along with the cameras. This in tern being wired back to the Router.
As far as I can tell from that explanation it should work okay.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
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