TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Discussion about hard drive spin down (standby) feature of NAS.
seb666
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TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by seb666 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:46 pm

Hi,

I just got a TS-253A and added (currently) one Seagate IronWolf 4TB disk (ST4000VN008).
The TS is running QTS 4.2.3 and I think I have disabled all disk power management features, but still I hear the drive parking its heads regularly, even when I'm in the middle of copying files to the TS.
I noticed that the Load_Cycle_Count SMART value for the drive is increasing a lot.
The value is about 200 now, the drive was brand new and is running continuously for less than 24h.

I don't want the drive to park its heads in the middle of operations. Ever.
Is there a way I can disable this? Or is that something that Seagate needs to fix?

TIA,
Sebastian

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Don
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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by Don » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:57 pm

Nothing in the QNAP that I am aware of that you can change. I would ask Seagate as it sounds like a drive issue.
Read the Online Manuals and use the forum search feature before posting.

It is a recommended to use RAID and have external backups. RAID will protect you from disk failure, keep your system running, and data accessible while the disk is replaced and the RAID rebuilt. Backups will allow you to recover data that is lost or corrupted, or from system failure. One does not replace the other.

Submit bugs and feature requests to QNAP via their Helpdesk app.

NAS: TVS-882BR | F/W: 4.3.6.0895 | 40GB | 2 x M.2 SATA RAID 1 (System/VMs) | 4 x M.2 NMVe QM2-4P-384A RAID 5 (Cache) | 5 x 4TB HDD RAID 6 (Data) | 1 x Blu-ray
NAS: TVS-663 | F/W: 4.4.1.1086 | 16GB | 2 x M.2 NMVe QM2-2P RAID 1 (Cache) | 4 x 4TB RAID 5
Apps: Boinc, Squid, DNSMasq, PLEX, iDrive, QVPN, QLMS, MP3fs, HBS, Entware, DLstation, +others

seb666
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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by seb666 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:00 pm

Thanks, I contacted them...

Sebastian

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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by seb666 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:45 am

It seems that the issue can be solved by running "hdparm -B 255 /dev/sdN" for each drive to disable the APM features.
Is there a place in the GUI where I could set this or do I need to set it through /tmp/config/autorun.sh?

Sebastian

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Don
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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by Don » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:06 am

No way in the GUI.
Read the Online Manuals and use the forum search feature before posting.

It is a recommended to use RAID and have external backups. RAID will protect you from disk failure, keep your system running, and data accessible while the disk is replaced and the RAID rebuilt. Backups will allow you to recover data that is lost or corrupted, or from system failure. One does not replace the other.

Submit bugs and feature requests to QNAP via their Helpdesk app.

NAS: TVS-882BR | F/W: 4.3.6.0895 | 40GB | 2 x M.2 SATA RAID 1 (System/VMs) | 4 x M.2 NMVe QM2-4P-384A RAID 5 (Cache) | 5 x 4TB HDD RAID 6 (Data) | 1 x Blu-ray
NAS: TVS-663 | F/W: 4.4.1.1086 | 16GB | 2 x M.2 NMVe QM2-2P RAID 1 (Cache) | 4 x 4TB RAID 5
Apps: Boinc, Squid, DNSMasq, PLEX, iDrive, QVPN, QLMS, MP3fs, HBS, Entware, DLstation, +others

seb666
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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by seb666 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:28 am

So autorun.sh it is. Thanks!

Sebastian

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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by Ron1963 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:28 am

This issue is also reported at the Synology forum, see https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopi ... 7&t=125401 , is related to head parking and is apparently mitigated in their latest Synology firmware. I have two 8TB Seagate NAS drives, of which one is the new IronWolf version. I am not experiencing the constant clicking noises but higher LCC's counts then with older WD Red 6TB. But not alarming high like with the old WD Greens or Seagate DM drives.

Sebastian, curious to know if the hdparm command actually works as it mentioned in that topic that no hdparm command works on Seagate drives...
1x TS431, 1x TS251, 1x TS253

seb666
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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by seb666 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:51 am

Hi Ron,
the hdparm command ("-B 255") did the trick for me.
Before, the drive parked its heads immediately when it became idle.
This gave me a load cycle count increase by about 400/day.

I was reading about other Seagate drives having "clicking issues" with Synology NASes before, but after a short glance at the topic you linked, this doesn't seem to be the same issue.
For me, the drive parked the head only when it became idle and "unparked" it when it was active.
No constant clicking noises when it stayed idle.

Anyway, after issuing the hdparm command to disable the drive's APM, the load cycle count has not increased at all:

Code: Select all

[~] # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda

/dev/sda:
 setting Advanced Power Management level to disabled
[~] # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sdc

/dev/sdc:
 setting Advanced Power Management level to disabled


Sebastian

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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by Ron1963 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:55 am

Hi Sebastian,
I'm glad it worked for you, however for me it doesn't. I get an input/output error message and "APM level = not supported". As mentioned in that Synology topic, for the 6, 8 and 10TB IronWolf's APM setting via hdparm doesn't work (I have 8TB versions and you have a 4TB). For those models it needs to be done by a SeaChest program which apparantly Seagate is very unwilling to distribute. I found out that our own QNAP_Stephane has created a SeaChest QPKG, see viewtopic.php?f=320&t=126100&hilit=seachest but this only works in 4.3.x and I have the 4.3 beta not installed on my 253.
1x TS431, 1x TS251, 1x TS253

seb666
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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by seb666 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:32 am

Ah, I see. So I guess I have been lucky choosing the 4TB model :)
Thanks for the clarification!

Sebastian

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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by Ron1963 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:38 pm

On my backup 251, which has 4.3 beta running, I have been able to stop the LCC flood on my 8TB Seagate with the SeaChest QPKG from QNAP_Stephane I have mentioned above. You can either disable the EPC (extended power conditions) completely or only the idle_b powermode which drives the head parking among others. For complete disablement issue the command

Code: Select all

[code]SeaChest_Powerchoice_103_193_64  --EPCfeature disable –d /dev/sg#[/code]

in the console you get after installing and starting the QPKG. The # depends on which handle the Seagate drive has, which you can find out by issuing

Code: Select all

[code]SeaChest_Powerchoice_103_193_64  -i[/code]

For disabling only the idle_b mode the command is

Code: Select all

SeaChest_Powerchoice_103_193_64  --changePower --disableMode –powerMode idle_b –d /dev/sg#
1x TS431, 1x TS251, 1x TS253

diezone
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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by diezone » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:28 am

work fine with my QNAP TS-253A and Seagate ST4000DM000
the new silence is amazing :)

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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by Don » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:58 am

Search the forum for all the issues with the DM drives. They are not suitable for use in a NAS.
Read the Online Manuals and use the forum search feature before posting.

It is a recommended to use RAID and have external backups. RAID will protect you from disk failure, keep your system running, and data accessible while the disk is replaced and the RAID rebuilt. Backups will allow you to recover data that is lost or corrupted, or from system failure. One does not replace the other.

Submit bugs and feature requests to QNAP via their Helpdesk app.

NAS: TVS-882BR | F/W: 4.3.6.0895 | 40GB | 2 x M.2 SATA RAID 1 (System/VMs) | 4 x M.2 NMVe QM2-4P-384A RAID 5 (Cache) | 5 x 4TB HDD RAID 6 (Data) | 1 x Blu-ray
NAS: TVS-663 | F/W: 4.4.1.1086 | 16GB | 2 x M.2 NMVe QM2-2P RAID 1 (Cache) | 4 x 4TB RAID 5
Apps: Boinc, Squid, DNSMasq, PLEX, iDrive, QVPN, QLMS, MP3fs, HBS, Entware, DLstation, +others

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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by bart_snp » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:19 pm

HI guys

Run into same problem with a ST4000VN008 - 4TB Segate disk. Unfortunately EPC it's not supported. Am I screwed?
Just want to disable idle_b powerMode.

[/opt/SeaChest/bin] # /opt/SeaChest/bin/SeaChest_PowerChoice_103_193_64 -d /dev/sg1 --changePower --disableMode --powerMode idle_b
===============================================================================
SeaChest_PowerChoice - Seagate drive utilities
Copyright (c) 2016 Seagate Technology LLC, All Rights Reserved
SeaChest_PowerChoice Version: 1.0.3-1_9_3 X86_64
Build Date: Jun 15 2016
Today: Fri Nov 3 15:17:52 2017
===============================================================================

sg1 - ST4000VN008-2DR166 - ZDH1Z8Q7
Device does not support the Extended Power Control Feature!
Changing power settings is not supported on this drive.

[/opt/SeaChest/bin] #

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Re: TS-253A and Seagate IronWolf - increasing Load_Cycle_Count

Post by P3R » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:13 pm

bart_snp wrote:Run into same problem with a ST4000VN008 - 4TB Segate disk. Unfortunately EPC it's not supported. Am I screwed?
Ask that question in a Seagate forum.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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