TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Questions about using NAS on Mac OS.
User avatar
schumaku
Guru
Posts: 43663
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Kloten (Zurich), Switzerland -- Skype: schumaku
Contact:

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by schumaku » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:40 pm

Riebesehl wrote:
schumaku wrote:
sodium wrote:IMHO Qnap should release it now or at least really soon (before the launch day of Lion) it isn't rocket science...
Personally I would opt for going to the Netatalk 2.2 Beta 4 ...
This was clerly ment for a short term Beta implementation...
Riebesehl wrote:Also, there is this: Open letter from the Netatalk developers.
QNAP is (from what I have been told) aware of this - much longer then since last Saturday.

I perfectly understand the NetAFP team motivation - however it's obvious their commercial offering by does still not match to what NAS manufacturers need.

Riebesehl
New here
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by Riebesehl » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:02 pm

schumaku wrote:I perfectly understand the NetAFP team motivation - however it's obvious their commercial offering by does still not match to what NAS manufacturers need.

???

I see ReadyNAS and Drobo listed as their customers...

User avatar
schumaku
Guru
Posts: 43663
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Kloten (Zurich), Switzerland -- Skype: schumaku
Contact:

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by schumaku » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:21 pm

Riebesehl wrote:I see ReadyNAS and Drobo listed as their customers...
ReadyNAS/Netgear is sponsoring the Netatalk project for a longer time, this is why they are listed.

Riebesehl wrote:???
NAS manufacturers don't need a closed system including Bonjour and a management Web UI. Not unlikely, they also make use of different platfroms than just x86_64, too.

Riebesehl
New here
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by Riebesehl » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:47 pm

???

You're fundamentally misreading something here. You wrote:
schumaku wrote:...their commercial offering by does still not match to what NAS manufacturers need.

Where in reply I gave evidence that this is plain false as at least two NAS manufacturers find the NetAFP offering of Netatalk 2.2.0 matching their needs.
schumaku wrote:NAS manufacturers don't need a closed system including Bonjour and a management Web UI. Not unlikely, they also make use of different platfroms than just x86_64, too.

You're really not reading the letter the way I do it. Again, obviously ReadyNAS and Drobo seem to believe they need Netatalk 2.2.0.

User avatar
schumaku
Guru
Posts: 43663
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Kloten (Zurich), Switzerland -- Skype: schumaku
Contact:

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by schumaku » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:21 pm

Nobody here says QNAP does not need the latest Netatalk, which is undoubteldy based on the work of NetAFP. However, NetAFP business ethics - see the very late announcement in the open letter and no deidcated offering for NAS vendors they have obvioulsy on their target list now - stinks (sorry to say). This is a very bad start for going commercial. Instead of announcing early enough on both the SourceForge and their own site they delayed for many in an unacceptable way.

Please really READ what supported platforms, what download and pricing (precompiled binary packages, Recommended for production environments that demand scale and availability. Professional support and maintenance make this the right choice for critical deployments.) they offer. I understand, these were thier "classic" offers set in place before start forcing the NAS vendors to unscheduled and unexpected actions. In German (from your nick I assume your from Germany) the word Nötigung comes near.

Ref. Netgear: http://www.netafp.com/open-letter-to-th ... unity-501/
In severe contrast to this, many corporations are using and making money from Netatalk, but in the past none of these cared that the cow they’re milking gets fed, Netgear Inc. being the one exception, thanks for that.

So they supported their developments for a longer time already.

In my opinion - and I like ot remind you I'm not QNAP - they should offer something in the range between 0.15 Euro (for home/SOHO NAS) up to 0.50 Euro per business class NAS sold. If all NAS vendors using Netatalk doing the same, this will be a very good business for the team.

Riebesehl
New here
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by Riebesehl » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:33 pm

schumaku wrote:Nobody here says QNAP does not need the latest Netatalk, which is undoubteldy based on the work of NetAFP. However, NetAFP business ethics - see the very late announcement in the open letter and no deidcated offering for NAS vendors they have obvioulsy on their target list now - stinks (sorry to say).

So how do you know they didn't approach other NAS vendors besides Netgear in the past? To me the open letter implies that, they've tried to talk to them, but besides Netgear noone listened.

schumaku wrote:Please really READ what supported platforms, what download and pricing (precompiled binary packages, Recommended for production environments that demand scale and availability. Professional support and maintenance make this the right choice for critical deployments.) they offer. I understand, these were thier "classic" offers set in place before start forcing the NAS vendors to unscheduled and unexpected actions.

I just read these pages as not targeted at NAS vendors. NAS vendors will have to talk to them directly.

schumaku wrote:In my opinion - and I like ot remind you I'm not QNAP - they should offer something in the range between 0.15 Euro (for home/SOHO NAS) up to 0.50 Euro per business class NAS sold. If all NAS vendors using Netatalk doing the same, this will be a very good business for the team.

Sounds reasonable, I'm sure they offered similar to QNAP, but QNAP as well as others didn't respond. So I can perfectly understand their (NetAFPs) action.

User avatar
schumaku
Guru
Posts: 43663
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Kloten (Zurich), Switzerland -- Skype: schumaku
Contact:

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by schumaku » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:28 pm

Riebesehl wrote:So how do you know they didn't approach other NAS vendors besides Netgear in the past? To me the open letter implies that, they've tried to talk to them, but besides Netgear noone listened.
I would wonder if they have never tried to contact the NAS makers. If I were in their **, I would banged on the doors of the highly commecrial Linux distributors like Novell, Redhat, ...) No - again, Netgear respectively ReadyNAS is supporting the project much longer.

Riebesehl wrote:I just read these pages as not targeted at NAS vendors. NAS vendors will have to talk to them directly.
there is no such service offering at all. B.S. marketing. Oh - and certainly not the most serious Web page for a business in Germany - the impressum is incomplete (can find http://www.netafp.com/about/ only) according to German and/or EU laws. So lets hope they're not hit by a fast lawyer. I'm just an engineer - and I hope the team is careful when it comes to the legal stuff and won''t get hurt.

Riebesehl wrote:
schumaku wrote:In my opinion - and I like ot remind you I'm not QNAP - they should offer something in the range between 0.15 Euro (for home/SOHO NAS) up to 0.50 Euro per business class NAS sold. If all NAS vendors using Netatalk doing the same, this will be a very good business for the team.

Sounds reasonable, I'm sure they offered similar to QNAP, but QNAP as well as others didn't respond. So I can perfectly understand their (NetAFPs) action.


Do you know? Are you one of the NetAFP team members?

schumaku wrote:The only contact I have seen (and can see...) was here in the forum - some weeks ago in a thread on "unclear" behaviour of some iApplications (ie. iPhoto) over Netatalk. I felt there is somebody writing who was not happy about his situation - with a reference "potentially a netatalk bug" and a link to the AFP 3.3 documentation - but there was no other reaction when I remember right.

Certainly a cry in the dark was this post from January 2011 http://www.netafp.com/status-of-netatal ... endor-322/ ... cerainly highly incomplete - many more NAS are implementing AFP/TimeMachine based on Netatalk code vey likely: Thecus, Adaptec, iOmega/EMC, Exanet, ...

Sometimes, also the NetAFP team does - well, bad promotion ... signed "-slow":

QNAP hasn't got decent UNIX engineering staff capable of provoding the level of support neccessary to run serious business from their products via AFP. They rely on Netatalk for AFP and have their bets placed on the Netatalk community fixing the/their/your problems. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.


I don't know how enocuraging this is to go into a business relation :shock:

Worth mentioning here: Apple ceased from the enterprise server market, dropping the Xserve products sometims back to the end of last year. Here is Steve J. himself in an Apple Data Center:

Image

To me, this does not look like a single Xserver - much more these are all HP Proliant DL 380 G-something servers. So either they run OS X Server on these boxes - or they own the NetAFP engineers a lot of money, too 8)

sodium
Easy as a breeze
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:09 pm

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by sodium » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:40 pm

we are getting off topic again... :-)

IMHO it would be fine to ask for a small amount of money for every NAS sold... (we are already paying for the twonkyserver license) and if that is a problem for Qnap would pay them to solve the current/coming AFP problems...
Qnap is a big player in the NAS market and they can do without big problems in the Mac world

my 2 cents
Three things in life are certain: Death, taxes & lost data. Guess which has occurred.

notshy
Starting out
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:32 am

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by notshy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:32 am

Sorry - my topics seems to have sparked some strong discussions here. I didn't realise the background behind getting this support added for our QNAP drives.

Rumours are suggesting July 14th or 19th for Lion now that the GM has been released. It seems like this AFP issue is going to take longer than 2-3 weeks to fix. I might consider running Lion on a fresh HD as a test system first and maybe use Snow Leopard to back it up for the moment and leave my MacBook's on Snow Leopard for the moment. There's always Migration Assistant to use at a later date.

I hope there is a sensible way to take this issue forwards.
Custom built Mac Pro - i7 930 OC to 3.8 Ghz / 6GB Ram / X58A-UD3R (v2-FF) / OSX 10.9.3 / Windows 7 64 Bit Ultimate
QNAP TS-419P (4.1.3 build 0217) w 4 x 1TB in Raid 5

applle
New here
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:04 pm

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by applle » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:44 pm

I would like to see a solution VERY soon or I will leave my 659Pro+ behind...
TimeMachine support is the only reason I have a QNAP anyway.

User avatar
schumaku
Guru
Posts: 43663
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Kloten (Zurich), Switzerland -- Skype: schumaku
Contact:

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by schumaku » Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:59 am

Actually the V3.5.0 Beta 1 is in the field. QNAP has scheduled the first availability of Netatlk 2.2 for the v3.5.0 Beta 4 build. ETA unknown - I expect very few weeks.

Regards,
-Kurt.

jcostom
Starting out
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:55 am

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by jcostom » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:39 pm

schumaku wrote:Actually the V3.5.0 Beta 1 is in the field. QNAP has scheduled the first availability of Netatlk 2.2 for the v3.5.0 Beta 4 build. ETA unknown - I expect very few weeks.


Very good.. Now that Lion is officially shipping, can someone from QNAP offer any further comment? Is the target closer to weeks or months? I'm waiting to upgrade our 3 Macs until this is available...

lenardg
First post
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 3:03 pm

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by lenardg » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:51 pm

3.4.4 released today, it adds support of DHX2. Updated the NAS, and AFP networking works from MacOSX Lion. However, TimeMachine does still not work, probably requires Netatalk 2.2? Hopefully Qnap will be able to provide an update soon enough, I hate that TimeMachine is broken.

sodium
Easy as a breeze
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:09 pm

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by sodium » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:02 pm

did somybody with Lion tried this?

http://www.appletips.nl/os-x-lion-verbi ... et-een-nas (in Dutch) the translation with http://translation.google.com is pretty decent...
Three things in life are certain: Death, taxes & lost data. Guess which has occurred.

User avatar
schumaku
Guru
Posts: 43663
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Kloten (Zurich), Switzerland -- Skype: schumaku
Contact:

Re: TimeMachine and Mac OS Lion

Post by schumaku » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:06 pm

lenardg wrote:3.4.4 released today, it adds support of DHX2.
DHX2 was in place on v3.4.3 before, too - to be OS X Lion compliant- but v3.4.3 is adding an option to disable - mainly to lower the connection times for previous OS X releases.

lenardg wrote:TimeMachine does still not work, probably requires Netatalk 2.2?
Yes...

lenardg wrote:Hopefully Qnap will be able to provide an update soon enough,...
It's scheduled for v3.5 Beta 4 loop.

Post Reply

Return to “Mac OS”