"Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

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P3R
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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by P3R » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:02 am

blub wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:55 pm
But nevertheless it is really annoying to be plagued by the same issue on 2 different brand new Qnap NAS machines within 15 months - there is no denying that.
I would of course feel the same. You definitely had your fair share of bad luck! :cry:
From what I have read here is that there is some sort of an issue with backplanes from certain NAS series and I wanted to ask if that issues is resolved or if any NAS series is not affected...
The model lines being affected in any significant numbers are as far as I've noticed TS-X63 and TS-X73 (I'd say probably around 50/50). With significant I mean maybe 200 units alltogether having been mentioned here in the forum, probably not significant in comparison with actual sales. Apart from those two model lines I'd say that no other lines are really affected. There are a few TS-X53 as well reported but those are high-volume models, so considering my guess about sales numbers I'd say those cases are insignificant.

The above are of course only the speculations and guesses from me (not employee, only long-time user and forum participant) that have followed the matter here with some interest.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by blub » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:31 am

Thisisnotmyname wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:32 am
blub wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:55 pm

It is just a NAS for movies and music, so nothing critical and I have more than one backup. The only problem with that setup is that it is really remote - not only from my main living area but also within the area where it is located - i.e. to get spare parts it is always a whole day trip, sometimes even two days.
Internet is slow and unreliable, so cloud service is not an option - and UPS we do have.

But nevertheless it is really annoying to be plagued by the same issue on 2 different brand new Qnap NAS machines within 15 months - there is no denying that.

From what I have read here is that there is some sort of an issue with backplanes from certain NAS series and I wanted to ask if that issues is resolved or if any NAS series is not affected - if that is the case I might just by a new one/3rd one and move the disks. If a buy another brand I need new disks to copy the data over which increases the cost even more


I've seen a couple references to x73 back plane failures on the forums but anecdotal data is anecdotal. QNAP would be the only ones with real comprehensive data and aside from issuing a recall they'd probably never publicize that sort of issue. That said, my totally unscientific survey of remembering threads here says that it's more likely with the x73 line but I've seen others with a dead backplane too.

OK, thx. However Qnap hasent answered to my support ticket yet

kommisar
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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by kommisar » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:05 am

After almost a year in service my TVS-473 NAS suddenly dropped disk 3 and the slot refused to work since when. Sounds familiar? :)

Before continuing I would like to emphasize, following IS NOT approved, confirmed or authorized by QNAP! Use it with caution!

First of all don't panic your data as well as the disk itself are fine and you only need a way to backup it. To do that:
1) Power Off your NAS
2) Take the "bad" disk out
3) Connect it to the NAS backplane with male-to-female SATA data extension cable
4) Use any external power source with SATA power connector to provide power to the "bad" disk. It can be standalone PC PSU but you need to figure out how to turn it on.
5) !!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS IMPORTANT TO MAKE ALL THE CONNECTIONS WITHOUT POWER TO NAS OR EXTERNAL SATA POWER SOURCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6) Power on the external SATA PSU first and NAS after that
7) Wait for NAS to start, RAID to synchronize and backup all your data to external storage.

Now, when the data is safe, it is the time to contact QNAP support, and RMA your faulty NAS. It will take time and in some case money but you will get fixed NAS and keep it under the warranty.
But it is also possible to try and fix the issue by yourself. The cost - penny and 15 minutes with soldering station. !!!!!!!!!! BUT YOU WILL VOID WARRANTY AND ANY UNAUTHORIZED/UNPROFESSIONAL MODIFICATION CAN DAMAGE YOUR NAS. IT ALSO REQUIRES SOLDERING SKILLS AND KNOWLEDGE HOW TO PROPERLY HANDLE DELICATE ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In my opinion the only option to go is to contact QNAP. QNAP support team is helpful and professional. The issue is known to QNAP and RMA is issued on spot. And you need really good reasons to try and fix the NAS by yourself.

If you brave enough to take the second option anyway, lets start from the issue background. It looks like the devices affected are TVS-x73 manufactured before late fall of 2017. On those devices disks 3-8 SATA power is controlled by a chain of MOSFETs. High level on the Gate of control N-channel MOSFET opens high-power P-channel MOSFET and the corresponded SATA slot gets power. And it looks like the control part of the power circuit is responsible for the issue in subject. For some reason control circuit disables high-power MOSFET for a moment and it starts chain of events leading to the disk to be unplugged. Sudden loss of the power also makes HDD to produce loud "click" mentioned earlier in this thread. Another evidence is the following error in kernel log:

ata6: SError: { RecovComm PHYRdyChg 10B8B Dispar } -- Count:x
ata6: SError: { RecovComm PHYRdyChg CommWake 10B8B Dispar DevExch } -- Count:x

It is possible to modify the control circuit to lock the high-power MOSFET in open state permanently and fix the issue for good. I will not provide exact instructions what to do to avoid unnecessary casualties. But if you have right set of skills, info above is more than enough to figure out offending part and right fix procedure.

To summarize, the issue is HW related. At this stage there is no SW/FW fix. If your "Disk Unplugged", your NAS is on warranty and you see symptoms described above - contact QNAP. If it is not possible just follow the provided clues.
Last edited by kommisar on Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by OneCD » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:10 am

Hi and welcome to the forum. :)
kommisar wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:05 am
For some reason control circuit disables high-power MOSFET for a moment and it starts chain of event leading to the disk to be unplugged. Sudden loss of the power also makes HDD to produces loud "click" mentioned earlier in this thread.
Good find!
kommisar wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:05 am
To summarize, the issue is HW related. At this stage there is no SW/FW fix.
Will this require QNAP to replace the affected board with a newer version?

production NAS: TS-569 Pro with Debian 10.2 'Buster' (power on/off times are < 1 minute)
backup NAS: TS-559 Pro+ with QTS 4.2.6 #20191107

one.cd.only@gmail.com

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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by kommisar » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:27 am

OneCD wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:10 am
Hi and welcome to the forum. :)
kommisar wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:05 am
For some reason control circuit disables high-power MOSFET for a moment and it starts chain of event leading to the disk to be unplugged. Sudden loss of the power also makes HDD to produces loud "click" mentioned earlier in this thread.
Good find!
kommisar wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:05 am
To summarize, the issue is HW related. At this stage there is no SW/FW fix.
Will this require QNAP to replace the affected board with a newer version?

I own one of the older versions of QNAP NAS for many-many years and to have the new and expensive one failed so quickly teased my curiosity. Results are above:)

My NAS backplane revision is 1.4. I know there is at least one updated version 1.5. But I I don't know is it affected by the issue or not. Probably someone with NAS fixed by QNAP can post his backplane revision. It is visible with disks removed in left bottom corner of the bay.

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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by ey96 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:21 pm

Hi Kommisar,

I got exactly the same issue on Disk 3. It was operating fine for 1+ year and then boom, it happens. Changed new disks, same phenomenon. It's been degraded for the last 6 months or so. I've decided to do a hardware modification on the backplane of my TVS-473 as it is difficult for me to send RMA all the way to QNAP as I am overseas. Can you email me the methods to tonyycng@gmail.com ? I will take my own responsibility.

Rgds.

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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by Flotsch123 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:18 pm

i am waiting for 7 weeks now for Qnap to send back my TVS-673 (backplane error, slot 3). 7 WEEKS!!!! i am starting to get angry.

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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by Thisisnotmyname » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:44 am

Flotsch123 wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:18 pm
i am waiting for 7 weeks now for Qnap to send back my TVS-673 (backplane error, slot 3). 7 WEEKS!!!! i am starting to get angry.

I would call them and tell them about your frustration. Seven weeks seems excessive and maybe having to face you on the phone will spur some action on their part. Assuming you arranged the RMA with QNAP directly and not a reseller, then you're in for whatever their policy is.

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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by Flotsch123 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:31 pm

Thisisnotmyname wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:44 am
Flotsch123 wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:18 pm
i am waiting for 7 weeks now for Qnap to send back my TVS-673 (backplane error, slot 3). 7 WEEKS!!!! i am starting to get angry.

I would call them and tell them about your frustration. Seven weeks seems excessive and maybe having to face you on the phone will spur some action on their part. Assuming you arranged the RMA with QNAP directly and not a reseller, then you're in for whatever their policy is.
i (had to) arrange RMA with the reseller, that is what Qnap told me, so i did. i brought my Qnap back to the reseller and the reseller sent it to qnap the very next day. since then, nothing. that is what i call customer care for a 1400$ device.

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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by P3R » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:01 pm

Flotsch123 wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:31 pm
i (had to) arrange RMA with the reseller, that is what Qnap told me, so i did.
Yes that's how it work in Europe for most (if not all?) products, the resellers are responsible for warranties.

The advantage is that the customer don't have to pay for the normally more expensive overseas shipping to the manufacturer, the disadvantage is that it mean another layer complicating the communication. :cry:

It doesn't help but at least you have my sympathy...
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

kommisar
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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by kommisar » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:43 pm

ey96 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:21 pm
Hi Kommisar,

I got exactly the same issue on Disk 3. It was operating fine for 1+ year and then boom, it happens. Changed new disks, same phenomenon. It's been degraded for the last 6 months or so. I've decided to do a hardware modification on the backplane of my TVS-473 as it is difficult for me to send RMA all the way to QNAP as I am overseas. Can you email me the methods to tonyycng@gmail.com ? I will take my own responsibility.

Rgds.
Hi,

Just to be sure my recipe will help you, can you please follow "external PSU" procedure described in my original post?
If yor slot 3 back to life, it means the issue is the backplane failure related to SATA power. Let me know and I will provide the fix description.

Again, because the fix is HW change to the QNAP device, I urge you to consider other options! You need to have some skills to do that.
Last edited by kommisar on Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

ey96
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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by ey96 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:26 am

Hi,

I've got the skills to do the necessary soldering, etc. Not worried bout it, and I'm ready to fix the hardware. No other choices. I've tried to downgrade my firmware back to last year's but nothing works. Changed hard disk too. So, it has to be back plane. Thinking of upgrading to TS-877 but before that I'm going to try this hardware fix and then use this for storage only.

Rgds.

Flotsch123
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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by Flotsch123 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:33 pm

waiting now 8 weeks for RMA my tvs-673 with backplane error. 8 WEEKS!!!

Thisisnotmyname
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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by Thisisnotmyname » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:14 pm

Flotsch123 wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:33 pm
waiting now 8 weeks for RMA my tvs-673 with backplane error. 8 WEEKS!!!

I guess on the plus side these eight weeks are giving you plenty of time to post about it in multiple threads.

(one thread is plenty)

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Re: "Disk Failed", then "Disk Unplugged" errors

Post by compusger » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:44 am

Thisisnotmyname wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:14 pm
Flotsch123 wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:33 pm
waiting now 8 weeks for RMA my tvs-673 with backplane error. 8 WEEKS!!!

I guess on the plus side these eight weeks are giving you plenty of time to post about it in multiple threads.

(one thread is plenty)
Well, what is your problem with that ?
I think its a valid point that those long RMA turnarounds are simply unacceptable !
And it might give other, potential buyers a valid headsup of what might come up in the future...

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