random reboot issues

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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:48 am

jab701 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:45 am
Hi,

I am running a TS-473 with Crucial Memory (Also tried the memory the unit shipped with), I have had a random reboot every 1-2 days since installing the beta. I am pretty sure the memory isn't the issue was the system would stay up for 30-40 days before the update.

I am currently in the process of moving data from my NAS to an iSCSI target in my main pc. Then I will attempt the firmware downgrade to 4.3.6.

I have even been setting the fans to run at maximum and it doesnt help so I don't think the issue is heat related. The disks are re-syncing every few days and one threw a SMART error which seems to have sorted itself out after two random reboots in one day.

While I have taken part in several betas, I don't expect a public beta to have such serious issues...
Toxic17 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:40 am
again, looks like PR lead news. someone couldn't wait any longer!

I have Beta2 on my 463, since the fan was near burnt out using Beta1.
Toxic17 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:13 pm
- QTS could not display the system temperature and system fan speeds on the TVS-863 in Control Panel > System > System Status > Hardware Information
not just the 863 but ALL x63's were affected. Also affected my Fan speed default to running very fast without any control over it.

Will install tonight when I get home.

actually, i wonder if your reboot occurred due to the fans not kicking in (or something else related to the nas fans operations) then things getting over heated so then it decided to reboot? did you check your system temps etc :' by the way, if the cpu etc over heat for long periods it can damage the hardware (for cpu i think it's 80-90C + where it starts to be bad :S )

only the x63 was mentioned, but you may as well check for your x73 just in case.

for me i don't think mine was fan related (perhaps?), i use the default fan settings which was smart auto adjustment. cause i check the fan settings and saw the fan was operating (if the UI was to be believed). toxic's screenshot was omitting any fan activity in his GUI. if you check the 4.4.1 firmware thread you'll see what i mean over there.

anyway i got a ticket open, guess i'll mention your incident to helpdesk as well :)
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Toxic17 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:09 pm

my fan is now behaving itself and I'm able to control it at last with beta2
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:47 pm

Toxic17 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:09 pm
my fan is now behaving itself and I'm able to control it at last with beta2
the real beta2? thats good to hear.

but i also heard there are new bugs
GTunney wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:25 pm
Updated my TS-653B and I now don't have any CPU or RAM stats, both read 0%.

Resource Monitor doesn't list any processes or anything either.

:S


*update

uptime 3 days 10 hours no incidents 8)
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Toxic17 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:56 pm

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:47 pm
the real beta2? thats good to hear.
but i also heard there are new bugs
Yes no doubt it will contain bugs.

I did notice when i installed Beta2 on the 453BT3, the app center was complaining about HBS and Cloud Backup Sync.

HBS is installed and Cloudbackup Sync isn't, but it was trying to uninstall HBS (failing thank god) and then trying to upgrade Cloud Back Sync.

when I checked the /.qpkg/ folders cloud backup sync was not installed, which I knew anyway. but the fact was in the qpkg.conf file it had an entry in it for the qpkg. Removing this entry fixed the issue.

but i never added it into app center or qpkg.conf.
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:28 pm

helpdesk wanted me to install back 4.4.1 and test with and without hbs beta 3 Image

but since i previously already tried with and without (uninstalled hbs3) and random reboot still happened, i reported as such to helpdesk.

i was hoping for them to figure this out, since they should be the expert. i'm just a regular beta tester, i only report when things go bad. feels a bit weird when the way they phrase it as if i should be the one to figure out whats causing this.... i thought that was their job Image i merely report issues i encounter, or perform whatever tests asked of me to check out for them that they can't do from their end :S

also not sure why they were asking me about my new ram because..... i already pointed out that even with the original ram, downgrading to 4.3.6 seemed to stop the random reboot..... but since they wanted the new ram (crucial) info i gave it, and also the memtest86 result i ran for it (no issues), also 5 days 10 hours uptime (no issues) with QTS 4.3.6 latest stable. So i hope they're not going to just blame ram as issue at this point Image

hopefully they figure it out and fix it.... i don't want them to ask me to do pointless things. i've already sent them quite a lot of thorough feedback as it is Image *sigh

//vent off Image
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:23 pm

okay already achieved 1 week uptime no random reboots on 4.3.6 (i've switched over to the new crucial ram. but even with the old ram i got 3 days with no issues).... so... the issue for causing random reboots is qts 4.4.1 for some reason.

maybe i should explain my config so helpdesk can figure out what exactly is causing this? i'm not doing any very complicated setup. so maybe something in the settings i use is triggering this.

disregarding my usual setup (doing extra settings, which is not much tbh)

even with a minimalist setup and starting from scratch with a new reinit mind ( do the raids, do the shares, use HBS to recover data from backup normal digital files), it would still eventually reboot just the same. so maybe it's not so much my setting as it's probably something new in qts 4.4.1 that is causing this.
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by jab701 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:43 pm

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:48 am
actually, i wonder if your reboot occurred due to the fans not kicking in (or something else related to the nas fans operations) then things getting over heated so then it decided to reboot? did you check your system temps etc :' by the way, if the cpu etc over heat for long periods it can damage the hardware (for cpu i think it's 80-90C + where it starts to be bad :S )

only the x63 was mentioned, but you may as well check for your x73 just in case.

for me i don't think mine was fan related (perhaps?), i use the default fan settings which was smart auto adjustment. cause i check the fan settings and saw the fan was operating (if the UI was to be believed). toxic's screenshot was omitting any fan activity in his GUI. if you check the 4.4.1 firmware thread you'll see what i mean over there.

anyway i got a ticket open, guess i'll mention your incident to helpdesk as well :)

The fan issue did occur to me, the CPU was running at 61C (which to be honest isn't hot for a CPU) so I forced the fans to full RPM and things did seem a little more stable but I still got reboots. It seems to me that the automatic fan control is a bit screwed up in 4.4.1 and I moved it to a manual threshold system where below 50C the fan was on low and above 50C it was running full tilt.

I have spent the last 4-5 days copying stuff off the NAS so that I can upgrade/downgrade/wipe it as needed so my data is safe :)

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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:34 pm

jab701 wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:43 pm
The fan issue did occur to me, the CPU was running at 61C (which to be honest isn't hot for a CPU) so I forced the fans to full RPM and things did seem a little more stable but I still got reboots. It seems to me that the automatic fan control is a bit screwed up in 4.4.1 and I moved it to a manual threshold system where below 50C the fan was on low and above 50C it was running full tilt.

I have spent the last 4-5 days copying stuff off the NAS so that I can upgrade/downgrade/wipe it as needed so my data is safe :)
i did check the fan cooling status. but at the time i was checking, it seemed fine.

cpu, hdds, system etc.

but i wasn't monitoring it constantly to see if it changed from that status, so maybe something happened?

the only alerts i had set was for HDD fans if they reached temps for 60+, but i don't recall setting any alerts for cpu and other stuff :'


i updated ts-653a without issue to the latest 4.4.1 build. i wish it was on 4.3.6 but a bit lazy to reinitialize (i tried a dirty downgrade for 4.4.1 back to 4.3.6 before with the x77, i didn't like the results of that. so a fresh reinit would have been in order), also it doesn't seem to be acting up and i already have a backup. i also set it to a bare setup without doing excessive changes to settings, and i disabled multimedia functions to avoid those bugs if any were still left.

i'll wait until qnap figures out why the random reboot is happening before i update again. otherwise i will have the same issue (already tried 3 times without change, and nothing in new build changelog says anything about this got fixed), then helpdesk will still not know why it happened. so waste of my time bothering to beta test if they won't be able to figure out from it why it does that. i already sent dump logs etc to them more than a few times already Image so i rather not waste time pointlessly if it's to no end. thats why i'm on 4.3.6 on the x77 for now, it's stable and no random reboots even with a week uptime logged already.

i alrdy alerted helpdesk, and they didn't reply back. guess they are busy investigating on their side Image

PS: trex already updated his x77 to 4.4.1 latest build no issue Image
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:37 pm

12 almost 13 days uptime.

4.3.6 confirmed fixed random reboots occurring. question is, what in 4.4.1 was causing it to begin with? because it's certainly not a hardware issue as far as i can tell.

trex whu has a ts-877 also seems to have no issue.

does anyone else seem to have any random reboot issues occurring post qts 4.4.1 upgrade? just wondering :' are there more cases like this.

i'm content to stay on 4.3.6 for now since it's stable. but at some point i'm going to have to upgrade to 4.4.1 if only just for the security patches. so.... it would be nice if qnap figures out the reason for this issue and fix it first :(

i sent dumplogs on multiple occasions in different scenarios , hopefully it's enough....
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[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by BlazeOptimus » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:00 am

I upgraded 2 x TS-1273-RP units to 4.4.1. One of them has not had a single reboot (although it sees much less usage), the other has rebooted non-stop. By non-stop, I mean several times a day. Nothing else has changed with the units other than the 4.4.1 upgrade, so I know that it is the cause.

My question is, by doing a downgrade to 4.3.6, will I loose the data on the unit?

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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:15 am

BlazeOptimus wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:00 am
I upgraded 2 x TS-1273-RP units to 4.4.1. One of them has not had a single reboot (although it sees much less usage), the other has rebooted non-stop. By non-stop, I mean several times a day. Nothing else has changed with the units other than the 4.4.1 upgrade, so I know that it is the cause.

My question is, by doing a downgrade to 4.3.6, will I loose the data on the unit?
when i attempted to downgrade from 4.4.1 to 4.3.6, i got a warning telling that qnap does not recommend doing so, and they say the risk is your own for doing this :S

i did it anyway and it seemed to work fine. no i don't think i lost data doing that as far as i could tell.

however, i did notice that there were leftovers from 4.4.1 in appcenter like the nvidia drivers. usually i'd use the remove app from appcenter, but it seemed like it was greyed out. so it was a mess, you'd need to do manual removal, which i'm not an expert on.

also secondly, when i had those constant random reboots, had to run multiple filesystem unclean checks, and it also did raid sync/rebuilds... so something MIGHT be scrambled, not really sure, but better to be safe than sorry.

so opted instead to just reinitialize (which does wipe all the data), then recover from my backup.

make sure you report to helpdesk about the random reboot issue if you suspect it's due to upgrading to qts 4.4.1
https://helpdesk.qnap.com/index.php?/Default


The latest i was told was to test on the official stable non beta 4.4.1 when that gets released. they didn't really explain what they may have found caused it. they just simply told me to try the stable build and report if the issue still happens :?

I will 100% most definitely be running a backup PRIOR to that update when it gets a release :shock:
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by cserl » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:17 am

After not having experienced the spontaneous reboot issues in the last month - see my original post above - the reboot happened again as a one time event 3 days ago. I am on firmware v4.3.6 Build 20190704 with my TS-1277. By the time of my original post the reboots happened every 1-2 day for a while even after I downgraded from 4.1 beta to 4.3.6 many times. After ticket exchange with the support it was suddenly gone.

Detection by log entry "[Power] The system was not shut down properly last time." My UPS is still in place --> The [Power] category in the log entry is misleading.
Temperature in the last days: CPU: 58C/136F, System: 38C/100F. HDD is on the compatibility list.

Hint: the error message "file system not clean" for encrypted volumes will only be visible after you unlock the volume.

Yes, I upgraded the RAM recently from 16GB to 48GB, but I had uninterrupted up-times of 15 days or more.

Has someone actually tested this issue in Virtualization Station with QTS? Does it reboot also there?

This company is apparently not able to control its system- and software development processes. There exist simple state-of-the art rules in this branch of the engineering profession for decades.
It is not enough to hope and pray for future fixes. Customers expect that maturity models like CMMI or SPICE and basic quality management like ISO 9001 are in place. Not to mention systematic problem solving methods. These should be also part of the quality management repertoire. The lack of this investment yields the above outcome. No surprise. N o t h i n g turns into n o t h i n g. Why would it be this time different? The forum is full of similar symptoms. Frankly, admit yourself you were inspired by the fancy marketing stuff to buy that box, and at the end you realized, the service quality provided by the box mismatches the quality of the marketing material.

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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:51 am

cserl wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:17 am
Has someone actually tested this issue in Virtualization Station with QTS? Does it reboot also there?
my random reboots LAST TIME when i used 4.4.1 beta1 on the ts-877

even on idle not doing anything, it still occurred. even with bare minimum apps installed on reinit, same thing. basically i did not even have to install the vs for the issue to occur is what i'm saying.

I haven't really tried 4.4.1 since then. I was advised by helpdesk to try again once a stable gets released. I'll update this thread then when that happens :)

well it is a beta, so no guarantees :'

as for their behind the scene testing processes, i have no comment since i'm not privy to that (nor most of us for that matter, since we are all just regular qnap users)

but i did however have a complaint about how my ticket was handled at the time. reported a serious issue that felt like it was being casually dismissed offhand, also without any solution provided for the situation which i found rather disappointing at the time. i do keep backups, but recovery takes time and is a huge inconvenience. so it was not worth my time and effort due to the lack of support in helping diagnose and advise on the issue. this is why i was not as enthusiastic about further testing 4.4.1 because of this experience. maybe the next beta i will be more inclined to try again once things get better ... :(

anyway i hope they do better next time. better still, that they find out the cause and fix it by the time a stable release comes out.

i'm currently on the previous qts 4.3.6 (because the latest qts has a smb issue so i'm skipping that qts), with an uptime for more than a month without a single random reboot. though currently i'm on some new 16gb crucial ram i got. but the main fix even when using the original ram was simply to downgrade back to 4.3.6 and reinitialize from scratch. so changing the ram was not really the fix for me for my case, merely coincidental.

beta 4 is the current atm, maybe someone who previously had this issue and is actively testing can confirm for you :' ?
viewtopic.php?f=151&t=150059
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[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review

https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

cserl
Starting out
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:00 am

Re: random reboot issues

Post by cserl » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:40 am

In the last week 2-3 restarts. I am on the latest version. Ticket raised.

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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:49 am

latest 4.3.6??

oo i no longer have issues on this version.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review

https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

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