Horrible Performance

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Toxic17
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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by Toxic17 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:43 pm

does your Synology have SSD drives in it? Ootherwise looks like the speeds are limited due to HDD Raid performance perhaps, whats the setup of the Synology? what disks, what raid? its not all about 10GbE. the sending and receiving of data from HDD have limitations as well.

the performance test here: https://www.synology.com/en-us/products ... nce#5_8bay have SSDs fitted, which will help with throughput. otherwise your down to slow disks.
Regards Simon

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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by spikemixture » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:28 pm

No SSD! I had 2x250 M.2 that went down to 10% in like 4 months as Cache. So took it out and put in the 10GBE card!
Set up is 3x8 ,4x6, 1x4 using SHR.

Next will run speed tests as now have all the 10GBE connected to one switch
PC to Qnap
PC to Syno
Qnap to Syno
Syno to Qnap
Qnap to PC
Syno to PC
Qnap TS-1277 1700 (48gb RAM) 6x8TB WD White, 2x8TB WD Red - Raid5, 2x M.2 Crucial 1TB (Raid 1 VM),
2x SSD 860 EVO 500gb (Raid1 QTS), 2x SSD 860 EVO 250GB (Cache), 2x M.2 PCIe 970 500gb NVME (Raid1 Plex and Emby server)
GTX 1050 TI
Qnap TVS-1282 i7 (32GB RAM) 8x10TB WD White - Raid 6, 2x M.2 Crucial 500gb (Raid1 VM),
2x SSD EVO 500gb (Raid1 QTS), 2x SSD EVO 250gb (Raid1 Cache), 2x M.2 PCIe Intel 512GB NVME (Raid1-Servers)
Synology -1817+ - 2x10,2x8,2x6 (Ironwolf) 2x6 (WD Red) - SHR
Drobo 5n - 3x2TB WD Green, 2x3TB WD Red - Drobo Raid
ProBox 8 Bay USB3 - 8x4TB Seagate - JBOD
All software is updated asap.
I give my opinion from my experience i.e. I have (or had) that piece of equipment/software and used it! :roll:

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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by Bob Zelin » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:41 am

How is the speed directly from your computer to your Synology 10G port. What is that speed.

Bob Zelin
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http://www.bobzelin.com

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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by spikemixture » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:00 pm

What is the Default measuring tool for testing network speed?

Direct from PC to syno 140
Direct Syno to PC 160

I have used windows explorer for these test as AJA can only be used from that PC to another or a mapped drive.
These numbers are me watching a 3gb movie being copied between the named locations.
MB/s

PC to Qnap = 180
PC to Syno = 110
Qnap to Syno = 100
Syno to Qnap = 60
Qnap to PC = 60
Syno to PC = 55
Qnap TS-1277 1700 (48gb RAM) 6x8TB WD White, 2x8TB WD Red - Raid5, 2x M.2 Crucial 1TB (Raid 1 VM),
2x SSD 860 EVO 500gb (Raid1 QTS), 2x SSD 860 EVO 250GB (Cache), 2x M.2 PCIe 970 500gb NVME (Raid1 Plex and Emby server)
GTX 1050 TI
Qnap TVS-1282 i7 (32GB RAM) 8x10TB WD White - Raid 6, 2x M.2 Crucial 500gb (Raid1 VM),
2x SSD EVO 500gb (Raid1 QTS), 2x SSD EVO 250gb (Raid1 Cache), 2x M.2 PCIe Intel 512GB NVME (Raid1-Servers)
Synology -1817+ - 2x10,2x8,2x6 (Ironwolf) 2x6 (WD Red) - SHR
Drobo 5n - 3x2TB WD Green, 2x3TB WD Red - Drobo Raid
ProBox 8 Bay USB3 - 8x4TB Seagate - JBOD
All software is updated asap.
I give my opinion from my experience i.e. I have (or had) that piece of equipment/software and used it! :roll:

Bob Zelin
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Posts: 880
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:55 am
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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by Bob Zelin » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:26 pm

use AJA System Test on your Windows computer. Connect it to your Synology. (map the drive). What does AJA System Test report back as the speed - with a 1G or 4G file at 1080p.
That is what we are trying to determine here - how fast is your synology to your PC.

Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com

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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by Bob Zelin » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:47 am

Hi Spikemixture -
I just got back from a client, that was getting "horrible speeds". System was big QNAP TVS-EC1680U, client computer was Mac Pro 2013 6,1 with Sonnet Twin 10G. Speeds were terrible. When I built this
system, they were getting over 800 MB/sec - now, barely functional.
I tried to talk with them on the phone (they will not let me remote in - secure facility) - and after rebooting, reseating cables, etc. - still HORRIBLE speeds.
I arrived on location, and sure enough - HORRIBLE SPEEDS. I took the ethernet cable from their Mac Pro Sonnet 10G box and plugged it into my MacBook Pro 1G port (T3 adaptor). I got 100 MB/sec. I then plugged in my QNAP QNA-T310G1T T3 to 10G adaptor to MY Mac Book Pro and I got over 800 MB/sec.
I then took the same cable and plugged it into their Mac Pro 1G port - and I got 100 MB/sec. I then moved this cable back to the Sonnet T2 to 10G adaptor, and got HORRIBLE SPEEDS.
I then reloaded the Sonnet Twin 10G driver, and rebooted their computer - now they are back to over 800 MB/sec.

Without having other equipment, it is very difficult to troubleshoot. If you don't have access to another computer, to see what is going on, then it will difficult for you to proceed. If your PC 10G card is only getting 110 MB/sec to the Synology 10G card - then something is up with your computer, because 100 MB/sec is the speed of a 1G connection - and while I prefer QNAP, I can assure you that the Synology connection is dramatically faster than that.

Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com

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Trexx
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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by Trexx » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:06 am

spikemixture wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:00 pm
What is the Default measuring tool for testing network speed?

Direct from PC to syno 140
Direct Syno to PC 160

I have used windows explorer for these test as AJA can only be used from that PC to another or a mapped drive.
These numbers are me watching a 3gb movie being copied between the named locations.
MB/s

PC to Qnap = 180
PC to Syno = 110
Qnap to Syno = 100
Syno to Qnap = 60
Qnap to PC = 60
Syno to PC = 55
Hey Spike... Windows is a terrible tool for measuring nw performance.

Use iPerf instead. https://iperf.fr/iperf-download.php
Qnapclub.eu has a version you can install on your qnap. https://qnapclub.eu/en/qpkg/180
Syno can be run in a docker container - https://community.synology.com/enu/foru ... ply=389143
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.3.x
QTS (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
Data (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar
VMs (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
Ext. (HDD): TR-004 [Raid-5] 4 x 4TB HGST Ultastor
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060 6GB
UPS: CP AVR1350

Model:TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.3.x Test/Backup Box
Model:TS-228a FW: 4.4.3.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by spikemixture » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:52 am

Bob Zelin wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:26 pm
use AJA System Test on your Windows computer. Connect it to your Synology. (map the drive). What does AJA System Test report back as the speed - with a 1G or 4G file at 1080p.
That is what we are trying to determine here - how fast is your synology to your PC.

Bob Zelin
Hello Bob,

I just ran these 2 tests (several times) - file size 1gb (4gb)
Average
1. From PC to Synology 1g connection - 110/110 (110/110)
2. Same using 10g connection - 420/977 (240/1000)

From my observation the 4GB File size starts fast (400+) but slows down to the 240 write speed by the time it finishes.
Does that mean the "bottleneck" is the Synology as it cannot handle the big files ?
Qnap TS-1277 1700 (48gb RAM) 6x8TB WD White, 2x8TB WD Red - Raid5, 2x M.2 Crucial 1TB (Raid 1 VM),
2x SSD 860 EVO 500gb (Raid1 QTS), 2x SSD 860 EVO 250GB (Cache), 2x M.2 PCIe 970 500gb NVME (Raid1 Plex and Emby server)
GTX 1050 TI
Qnap TVS-1282 i7 (32GB RAM) 8x10TB WD White - Raid 6, 2x M.2 Crucial 500gb (Raid1 VM),
2x SSD EVO 500gb (Raid1 QTS), 2x SSD EVO 250gb (Raid1 Cache), 2x M.2 PCIe Intel 512GB NVME (Raid1-Servers)
Synology -1817+ - 2x10,2x8,2x6 (Ironwolf) 2x6 (WD Red) - SHR
Drobo 5n - 3x2TB WD Green, 2x3TB WD Red - Drobo Raid
ProBox 8 Bay USB3 - 8x4TB Seagate - JBOD
All software is updated asap.
I give my opinion from my experience i.e. I have (or had) that piece of equipment/software and used it! :roll:

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Trexx
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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by Trexx » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:39 pm

If you have SSD caching in the process, that will cause the slowdown as the cache starts either destaging or having to do garbage collection as it exhausted the dream cache on the SSD.

Also HDD transfer speeds will vary depending where on the drive you are (fuller drive tends to be a little slower)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.3.x
QTS (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
Data (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar
VMs (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
Ext. (HDD): TR-004 [Raid-5] 4 x 4TB HGST Ultastor
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060 6GB
UPS: CP AVR1350

Model:TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.3.x Test/Backup Box
Model:TS-228a FW: 4.4.3.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq

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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by Bob Zelin » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:42 am

1) Trexx is of course correct. Turn off your SSD caching.
2) yes, the Synology 1817+ with 10G card probably cannot sustain that speed. I make a big issue with clients about exactly what model QNAP to get for this very reason. They look at the spec graph on the QNAP page and see "ten zillion Megabytes per second". I know what models can - and cannot perform consistent speeds that are wonderful. And as an overview - the cheaper models (for both QNAP and Synology) cant do it, and the more expensive models can.

Everything becomes a variable. The very fact that you have a mixture of 5400 RPM and 7200 RPM drives is a terrible idea. I fully understand that you could not afford off of them at the same time. I fully understand that the QM2 10G port is not as advertised, and cannot perform as well as a modern $89 QXG-10G1T. What can I say.
The only reason I know a lot of this stuff, is that I install a LOT of QNAP and Synology systems, and I make a lot of mistakes, and I get to install QNAP systems, that I have never approved, and see their poor performance first hand. When you see me respond to posts on these forums, I always insist on the same models, and the same things - use 10G ports, use at least eight 7200 RPM drives in a static volume RAID 5 or RAID6, and use good QNAP models like TS-1683XU-RP, TS-1677XU-RP, TS1677X, TS-1685X, TVS-1282T3, and TVS-872X. You don't see me recommending other models, because from my experience, they will not perform as well as these models. Easy for me to talk - it's not my money !

Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com

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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by spikemixture » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:06 am

Bob Zelin wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:42 am
Bob Zelin
Going by the model number I presume the QXG-10G1T had the same chip as QM2-2P10G1TA and the QM2-2P10G1T
I have the 2 latter which you will know have the 2x m.2 onboard
Maybe the M.2 are slowing things down!

All I want is a lot faster than I am getting now to back up from the Qnap to Synology
If i was getting even 100+MB/s I would be happy.

Then moving 30+TB of data won't take a week everytime I want to try (or stuff up) something new!!

This HBS V3 !! copying from Qnap to Syno = "Horrible Performance"
hbsv3Capture.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Qnap TS-1277 1700 (48gb RAM) 6x8TB WD White, 2x8TB WD Red - Raid5, 2x M.2 Crucial 1TB (Raid 1 VM),
2x SSD 860 EVO 500gb (Raid1 QTS), 2x SSD 860 EVO 250GB (Cache), 2x M.2 PCIe 970 500gb NVME (Raid1 Plex and Emby server)
GTX 1050 TI
Qnap TVS-1282 i7 (32GB RAM) 8x10TB WD White - Raid 6, 2x M.2 Crucial 500gb (Raid1 VM),
2x SSD EVO 500gb (Raid1 QTS), 2x SSD EVO 250gb (Raid1 Cache), 2x M.2 PCIe Intel 512GB NVME (Raid1-Servers)
Synology -1817+ - 2x10,2x8,2x6 (Ironwolf) 2x6 (WD Red) - SHR
Drobo 5n - 3x2TB WD Green, 2x3TB WD Red - Drobo Raid
ProBox 8 Bay USB3 - 8x4TB Seagate - JBOD
All software is updated asap.
I give my opinion from my experience i.e. I have (or had) that piece of equipment/software and used it! :roll:

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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by Toxic17 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:24 pm

Aquantia AQC107 controller
QXG-10G1T
QM2-2P10G1TA
QM2-2S10G1TA

Tehuti TN9710P Controller
QM2-2S10G1T
QM2-2P10G1T

The Aquantia controllers are faster and have replace the outgoing Tehuti contollers.

QNAP Note: The M.2 interface and 10GbE connectivity of QM2-2P10G1TA shared the same bandwidth. To get complete 10GbE performance, please choose QNAP 10GbE NICs or QM2-2S10G1TA.


your HBS speeds will NEVER be 10GbE. its not a straight file copy. when the job starts the timer starts. it then can do all sorts of processes before even sending data. I must say though HBS3 with QuDedupe does save overall time on some of my larger backups, though this is with RTRR via another QNAP NAS. I'm guessing yours is via rsync?
Regards Simon

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NAS: TS-473-32GB QM2-2P QXG-10G1T 4.4.2.1354 • TVS-463-16GB 4.4.2.1354 QM2-2S10G1TB • TS-459 Pro 2GB 4.2.6 • TS-121 4.3.3.1161 • APC Back-UPS ES 700G •
QPKG's: Plex 1.19.3 • Apache73 v2443.74070 • QSonarr 3.0.3.809 • QNBZGet 21.0 • phpMyAdmin 5.0.2 • Qmono 6.80.105 • McAfee 3.1.0 -6010 • HBS 3.0.200424 • LEgo v3.6.0
Network: VM Hub 3.0 <500/35> • UniFi USG Pro 4 • UniFi USW-16-150W • UniFi USW-8-60W • UniFi CloudKey Gen2+ • UniFi G3-Flex • UAP AC Pro • UAP AC Lite • SLM2008 • Dell 7050 MFF •

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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by spikemixture » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:13 pm

Toxic17 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:24 pm
Aquantia AQC107 controller
QXG-10G1T
QM2-2P10G1TA
QM2-2S10G1TA

Tehuti TN9710P Controller
QM2-2S10G1T
QM2-2P10G1T

The Aquantia controllers are faster and have replace the outgoing Tehuti contollers.

QNAP Note: The M.2 interface and 10GbE connectivity of QM2-2P10G1TA shared the same bandwidth. To get complete 10GbE performance, please choose QNAP 10GbE NICs or QM2-2S10G1TA.


your HBS speeds will NEVER be 10GbE. its not a straight file copy. when the job starts the timer starts. it then can do all sorts of processes before even sending data. I must say though HBS3 with QuDedupe does save overall time on some of my larger backups, though this is with RTRR via another QNAP NAS. I'm guessing yours is via rsync?
Interesting and thanks
So why does the 2P10G1TA share the bandwidth but the 2S10G1TA does not. Does NVME needs something different?

I realise I will NEVER get 10GBE anywhere (let alone using HBS)
I am not using QuDedupe because i want my backup to be an identical (real) copy and yes I am using rysnc.
Have tried FTP and SMB with no success.
FTP says the receiving ftp server(client) need MLT (I think it was MLT)
Qnap TS-1277 1700 (48gb RAM) 6x8TB WD White, 2x8TB WD Red - Raid5, 2x M.2 Crucial 1TB (Raid 1 VM),
2x SSD 860 EVO 500gb (Raid1 QTS), 2x SSD 860 EVO 250GB (Cache), 2x M.2 PCIe 970 500gb NVME (Raid1 Plex and Emby server)
GTX 1050 TI
Qnap TVS-1282 i7 (32GB RAM) 8x10TB WD White - Raid 6, 2x M.2 Crucial 500gb (Raid1 VM),
2x SSD EVO 500gb (Raid1 QTS), 2x SSD EVO 250gb (Raid1 Cache), 2x M.2 PCIe Intel 512GB NVME (Raid1-Servers)
Synology -1817+ - 2x10,2x8,2x6 (Ironwolf) 2x6 (WD Red) - SHR
Drobo 5n - 3x2TB WD Green, 2x3TB WD Red - Drobo Raid
ProBox 8 Bay USB3 - 8x4TB Seagate - JBOD
All software is updated asap.
I give my opinion from my experience i.e. I have (or had) that piece of equipment/software and used it! :roll:

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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by Toxic17 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:15 pm

spikemixture wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:13 pm
So why does the 2P10G1TA share the bandwidth but the 2S10G1TA does not. Does NVME needs something different?
Afaik its just the design of the 2P/10GbE Card.

QM2-2S10G1TA
Image




QM2-2P10G1TA
Image
Regards Simon

QTS 4.x User Guidex

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Submit a ticket • QNAP Helpdesk
QNAP Tutorials, User Manuals, FAQs, Downloads, Wiki
When you ask a question, please include the following


NAS: TS-473-32GB QM2-2P QXG-10G1T 4.4.2.1354 • TVS-463-16GB 4.4.2.1354 QM2-2S10G1TB • TS-459 Pro 2GB 4.2.6 • TS-121 4.3.3.1161 • APC Back-UPS ES 700G •
QPKG's: Plex 1.19.3 • Apache73 v2443.74070 • QSonarr 3.0.3.809 • QNBZGet 21.0 • phpMyAdmin 5.0.2 • Qmono 6.80.105 • McAfee 3.1.0 -6010 • HBS 3.0.200424 • LEgo v3.6.0
Network: VM Hub 3.0 <500/35> • UniFi USG Pro 4 • UniFi USW-16-150W • UniFi USW-8-60W • UniFi CloudKey Gen2+ • UniFi G3-Flex • UAP AC Pro • UAP AC Lite • SLM2008 • Dell 7050 MFF •

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Re: Horrible Performance

Post by Trexx » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:40 am

They both are sharing the bandwidth via the PCIe switch.

The main difference is that by the spec NVMe has to be on the PCIe bus where Sata has the controller in front of it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.3.x
QTS (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
Data (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar
VMs (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
Ext. (HDD): TR-004 [Raid-5] 4 x 4TB HGST Ultastor
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060 6GB
UPS: CP AVR1350

Model:TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.3.x Test/Backup Box
Model:TS-228a FW: 4.4.3.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq

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