Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Backup, Restore, Netbak Replicator, Cloud Storage Services
Post Reply
tgsbn
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:40 pm

Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by tgsbn »

Is there a manual available for Hybrid Backup Sync Version 3?
I have been trying to figure out the meaning of the various options from the GUI but many of my guesses have turned out to be wrong, not to talk of traps like options disappearing when a certain USB drive is not plugged in.
It would be great to have all this documented somewhere to read up.
alokeprasad
Easy as a breeze
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:06 pm

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by alokeprasad »

There are some videos on Youtube. That's all I could find.
NAS: TS-453Be
RAM:Crucial 8GB Kit (2 x 4GB) DDR3L-1600 SODIMM CT2KIT51264BF160B
QTS: 5.1.4
HDD's: RAID 6: Four 8TB WD Red (WD80EFAX)
USB HDD: One 12 TB WD Elements (WDBWLG0120HBK-NESN)
Switch: Netgear GS108
OnOffPT
New here
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:18 am

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by OnOffPT »

I'm on the same boat I cannot make much sense of it.
In "create storage space" there are 4 options for the server type:
1. TS NAS rsync server
2. ES NAS rsync server
3. NAS-based rsync server
3. Rsync-compatible server

What's the difference between these?
If you select "Use encryption port", it greys out the capability to change the port number. Furtunately this is just an HTML bug that I was about to work around editing the HTML source using Chrome and the new port number was accepted/worked.

I've some concerns in using this to backup my photo gallery.
User avatar
Moogle Stiltzkin
Guru
Posts: 11448
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 am
Location: Around the world....
Contact:

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

here are some videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7KYkG_57TM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63WwgBXyLBU


other resources

https://www.qnap.com/en/how-to/tutorial ... a-qnap-nas

https://www.qnap.com/en/how-to/search/hybrid%20back

https://www.qnap.com/solution/hbs3/en/




HBS 3 is not particularly complicating. although it's understandable for new users who are not familiar with it. check the youtube videos that will walk you through it.

the HBS options there are "i" which you hover mouse over which explains what those settings are. and if still unsure, there is the documentation that further goes into detail.

or if you use the forum search there will be mention of what it does.


I've been using HBS as my backup app from main nas to backup nas. backing up via rtrr one way sync, and restoring has worked fine for me for many years.


My tip for using HBS is, once you watch the youtube and check the description of the settings, and configure a backup setting, to FIRST TEST on a SAMPLE DATA (doesn't have to be much files, just a few will do) how it does that backup job you created. If it backups and restores as you imagined it should, ONLY THEN is it okay to use for production. This is how i first learned how to use HBS :) trial and error.

While at it, i also suggest you read this in regards to what constitutes as an acceptable backup.
https://www.reddit.com/r/qnap/comments/ ... _a_backup/
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
tgsbn
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:40 pm

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by tgsbn »

@Moogle Stiltzkin: I know how backup works and what does or doesn't constitute a proper backup. I have twenty-five years of experience with various backup solutions, starting with good old Unix dump and tar (when the 't' still meant 'tape'), continuing through Amanda, BackupExec and NTBackup, and presently Bacula/Bareos and Veeam. Alas, none of these is available for QNAP, so I am forced to use HBS.

No, HBS3 is not very complicated. In fact, it is rather simplistic as backup solutions come. It is easy enough to click through in order to create a backup job that will sort of work. Still it has a lot of options whose meaning is not at all clear, for example:
* What can I write in the "Included/Excluded File Types - Other" field? A regex? Which syntax? A list of extensions? Separated by what?
* Is or isn't QuDedup supported on my ARM-based TS-228A? Marketing blurb says no, but HBS offers it anyway.
* Deselecting QuDedup pops up a warning "This will affect other existing job policies and options, and settings." but does not tell which ones.
* What does the "Remove additional files in destination folder" option do in a backup job? (It seems clear enough for a sync job.) How does it interact with versioned backups?
* What exactly does "Exclude duplicate files" do? There are quite diverse theories on that in the fora.

I already mentioned nasty surprises like the schedule being surreptitiously reset from "Auto-Backup" to "No schedule" if you happen to open a job configuration when its destination disk isn't connected.

I had read the tutorial you linked before posting. It isn't even for the current version of HBS.

I had also tried the search you proposed. It did not, and as of today still doesn't, yield an answer to my question.

Your third qnap.com link only leads to the marketing material for HBS3 which, needless to say, doesn't answer my question either.

And I hate videos. You can't search them, you can't browse them, you can't read them at your own pace, and they invariably gloss over important details while going into needless lenghts on trivial points.

In short, I'm looking for documentation, not tutorials.
User avatar
Moogle Stiltzkin
Guru
Posts: 11448
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 am
Location: Around the world....
Contact:

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

tgsbn wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:49 am @Moogle Stiltzkin: I know how backup works and what does or doesn't constitute a proper backup. I have twenty-five years of experience with various backup solutions, starting with good old Unix dump and tar (when the 't' still meant 'tape'), continuing through Amanda, BackupExec and NTBackup, and presently Bacula/Bareos and Veeam. Alas, none of these is available for QNAP, so I am forced to use HBS.
not familiar with any of those. you seem more expert on this than me :shock:

afaik HBS can just backup my stuff without fuss. no i do not do much of the filtering tweaks, other the basic defaults more or less. seems to do the job.

i do have the verify toggled enabled, but it does impact performance... not really sure if it's really needed.... but safer than sorry :)

tgsbn wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:49 am No, HBS3 is not very complicated. In fact, it is rather simplistic as backup solutions come. It is easy enough to click through in order to create a backup job that will sort of work. Still it has a lot of options whose meaning is not at all clear, for example:
* What can I write in the "Included/Excluded File Types - Other" field? A regex? Which syntax? A list of extensions? Separated by what?
* Is or isn't QuDedup supported on my ARM-based TS-228A? Marketing blurb says no, but HBS offers it anyway.
* Deselecting QuDedup pops up a warning "This will affect other existing job policies and options, and settings." but does not tell which ones.
* What does the "Remove additional files in destination folder" option do in a backup job? (It seems clear enough for a sync job.) How does it interact with versioned backups?
* What exactly does "Exclude duplicate files" do? There are quite diverse theories on that in the fora.
the faq documentation i linked with all the Q & A's are basically where those questions get answered. if it's not there then they probably didn't add it yet.

tgsbn wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:49 am I already mentioned nasty surprises like the schedule being surreptitiously reset from "Auto-Backup" to "No schedule" if you happen to open a job configuration when its destination disk isn't connected.
i don't know about that. for most of us users, we usually find out from the forum based on other user feedback or from trial and error. If the FAQ does not even mention this.

tgsbn wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:49 am I had read the tutorial you linked before posting. It isn't even for the current version of HBS.
unfortunately this is rather common. some of the tuts and documentations are outdated (not all). i would on occasion report this to helpdesk requesting them for an updated article.

tgsbn wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:49 am I had also tried the search you proposed. It did not, and as of today still doesn't, yield an answer to my question.
:( in those cases, just have to ask on forum like what you just did.


tgsbn wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:49 am And I hate videos. You can't search them, you can't browse them, you can't read them at your own pace, and they invariably gloss over important details while going into needless lenghts on trivial points.
i've suggested in the past that they add timed headers for what is being covered in the videos for post video production edits. then people can just time skip to the part they are interested in.
tgsbn wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:49 am In short, I'm looking for documentation, not tutorials.
it's the faq links i linked :( maybe there are others? no idea.


you're welcome :)
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
Bob Zelin
Experience counts
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:55 am
Location: Orlando, FL.
Contact:

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by Bob Zelin »

I have to agree with the original poster. There is no comprehensive manual for HBS 3. I use HBS 3 on all of my installations, and they are for QNAP to QNAP, QNAP to Synology or Synology to QNAP. But now, I have to do some third party generic server to QNAP (and it's a 1 Pedabyte backup) - so I have to use rsync, and there are a lot of choices that I don't understand. If there are menu selections like TS NAS rysnc server, ES NAS rsync server, NAS based rsync Server, and Rsync compatible server, there should be SOMEWHERE that states exactly what these are. I have been google searching, as well as looking at all your links, and QNAP documentation, and there is nothing that states what all these options are.

It's very frustrating. For the record, I use RTRR for both local in house backups, and remote over the web backups and it works great. But now I have to deal with a third party server, and I will be "pushing buttons" trying to get it to work, when I arrive at the client site.

Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com
TeePee3NAS
Starting out
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:39 pm

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by TeePee3NAS »

I have to agree with the original poster. There is no comprehensive manual for HBS 3.
+1

I am experiencing a lot of problems with HBS which leaves me trying to understand the debug output produced when you save a report. I would expect a chapter on debugging errors or failures to be included in a good product manual. And I also agree that there are many options in the configuration of HBS that would be tackled much more easily and confidently if we were accompanied by an up-to-date HBS manual.
athinaok
Starting out
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by athinaok »

tgsbn
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:40 pm

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by tgsbn »

That hardly qualifies as a manual.
It declares itself to be a tutorial, and that's what it is.
It misses out completely on the entire topic of backing up to a directly connected USB disk.
I cannot judge its completeness regarding the network backup options because I don't use those, but I'd expect them to be similarly incomplete.
swissnas
Starting out
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:12 am

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by swissnas »

I am bashing my head on the table trying to get HBS3 to work with a remote QNAP NAS of mine at my parent's house.

How in the effin world are important setup criteria "TS NAS rysnc server, ES NAS rsync server, NAS based rsync Server, and Rsync compatible server" not defined somewhere? I want to punch the engineer in the face who listed those without defining their differentiating characteristics. How absolutely useless, and unnecessarily so.

Has anyone teased out what their differences are?

I still can't get RSYNC to work (it used to work fine, pre HBS 3) - I know my login... password.. ports are correctly forwarded (I can FTP fine).
User avatar
Toxic17
Ask me anything
Posts: 6469
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by Toxic17 »

swissnas wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:33 amI want to punch the engineer in the face who listed those without defining their differentiating characteristics. How absolutely useless, and unnecessarily so.
I suppose threatening QNAP employees with violence may work, but I dont think somehow, you would be spending plenty of time with a cellmate rather than your NAS :lol:
Regards Simon

Qnap Downloads
MyQNap.Org Repository
Submit a ticket • QNAP Helpdesk
QNAP Tutorials, User Manuals, FAQs, Downloads, Wiki
When you ask a question, please include the following


NAS: TS-673A QuTS hero h5.1.2.2534 • TS-121 4.3.3.2420 • APC Back-UPS ES 700G
Network: VM Hub3: 500/50 • UniFi UDM Pro: 3.2.9 • UniFi Network Controller: 8.0.28
USW-Aggregation: 6.6.61 • US-16-150W: 6.6.61 • 2x USW Mini Flex 2.0.0 • UniFi AC Pro 6.6.62 • UniFi U6-LR 6.6.62
UniFi Protect: 2.11.21/8TB Skyhawk AI • 3x G3 Instants: 4.69.55 • UniFi G3 Flex: 4.69.55 • UniFi G5 Flex: 4.69.55
Panache
Starting out
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:54 am

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by Panache »

I suppose I'm in the same boat. I just received my QNAP NAS yesterday and after installing a few drives and syncing for 24 hours or so, I tried to set up an rsync job to get several TBs of data from an existing Netgear NAS on the same network to the QNAP. Unfortunately, after 5 or 6 hours, I have been unsuccessful at getting the two boxes to rsync.

(I have been moderately successful at using FTP between the two boxes. I say moderately because I can get them to talk to one another and even set up a job on the QNAP that it says runs successfully. But when I try to find the data it transferred successfully, it is nowhere to be found on the QNAP. That task needs more work.)

The HBS3 app has a lot of options, many more than the equivalent on the Netgear. (I've been using rysnc successfully on two Netgear NAS on the same LAN for years. The jobs run overnight and work fine.) And it seems that whenever I pick the Netgear LAN, HBS tells me to enable RTRR on the Netgear NAS, but then it says that RTRR is only for QNAP devices.

Very confusing and frustrating. I'll quit for the evening and try again tomorrow. Thanks for listening.
statler2
New here
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:03 am

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by statler2 »

PUSH (but only the question): Any explanation about the differences?

TS NAS rysnc server
ES NAS rsync server
NAS based rsync Server
Rsync compatible server

Googled, Binged, QNAPed > no results!
User avatar
Moogle Stiltzkin
Guru
Posts: 11448
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 am
Location: Around the world....
Contact:

Re: Wanted: HBS 3 Manual

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

one thing they don't teach you in any manual for hbs,

if you are on an older hbs and one way sync rtrr doesn't work, then there is a good chance that the reason is because that particularly version had a bug in rtrr which was only fixed in newer versions (i know this because i found out on google, and in this forum. helpdesk was no help in this regard)

so the only option here is, switch to use rsync instead which will work.

this was only learned through trial and error with hbs and finding out from other users on the forum discussing this particular issue.

so even if they came out with a manual, you'd still need to maybe check forum if there is an issue like this, if only to discover quirks with it and how to get around the issue in some instances. especially if your nas model got flagged as eol, hence hbs was then no longer updated to the newer app for that particular model (something that may surprise some users that may not be aware of this fact).



if you want to backup to truenas from a QNAP NAS, select the remote rsync server option. same for synology as well in HBS when selecting remote server.


if you want the sync to be faster, do not use the "check file content" in hbs option. I find that to drastically slow down the process. To my understanding it still does a minimal comparison (file name? file date?), but not the more comprehensive check (checksum comparison?) that takes longer if you have this unticked.

SSL also should be disabled if you are doing hbs over lan (because it unecessarily slow things down for little benefit). Only enable if using HBS remotely online.


the option for take snapshot and use as source for backup, the only thing i can think of to use this feature is for say like my docker config file share location. It's probably safer to backup a snapshot rather than a live system with data constantly changing (at least from what i read on this topic). You probably need the snapshot feature setup for your volume for this feature to work though.


if you want to confirm that your backup worked, after you finished your backup, run it a 2nd time, if it says 0 files were changed, then that is a good sign (meaning the first time backup succeeded without missing any files).
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
Post Reply

Return to “Backup & Restore”