WD Green Drives no good for QNAP's??

[shake-the-disease]

I've been investigating which HDD's to buy for a QNAP and stumbled across this thread http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=51401

Basically it identifies a (potential?) problem with WD Green HDDs & Linux in particular. Seems the WD drives park if they have no activity after 8 seconds, and linux seems to only access the HDD every 30. As a result there's a lot of park/unpark activity. Given the rated life of a WD drive is 300,000 parks/unparks then potentially that figure could be reached in just 100 days with a Linux OS (eg QNAP).

What do you think? Seagate?

[fstrange]

Hi

Thanks for this post, since i was expecting to purchase Western Digital 1 TB (WD1000FYPS) for my new TS-239 next week.

I've read the article and might buy WD drives even though. If anybody would like to recommend another 1 TB drive, please be my guest

But it would really be a relief if QNAP could handle this (potential) WD issue.

[bobertuk]

Have been using a 2TB WD20EADS (Western Ditigital 'Green') for two months, 16 hrs each day, on a QNAP TS-509 Pro. According to the information provided through your link, and looking at the disc SMART results....

009 Power_On_Hours 728
193 Load_Cycle_Count 128

This suggests that after 728 operational hours, there have been 128 disc park events. That gives me about 800 years mtbf - obviously not the case in real life but it does indicate that there isn't a problem! Not on my QNAP/WD20EADS anyway.

Hope that helps.

Bob

[shake-the-disease]

Thanks. Reportedly the head park/unpark events in latter firmware is reported as start_stop_cycles. Is that also low?

Here's a good summary from our brothers at Synology http://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic ... 24&t=11682 . It seems the three platter EADS drives aren't affected (WD10EADS, WD15EADS) and that the 4 platter EADS drives are also probably not affected. The 4 platter EACS drives are affected though. Maybe. Probably.

[drfruit]

My WD10EADS have the same value for Start_Stop_Count as for Load_Cycle_Count. In my case, 501 for almost 3000 power_on_hours.
I am glad I forked out a few more euros and waited a few days longer for delivery of the EADS version, even though my decision was based on of the larger buffer.

[eagle00789]

WD15EADS

Power_On_Hours 421
Start_Stop_Count 7
Load_Cycle_Count 6
Power_Cycle_Count 5

[jakub82]

I have struggled with this problem with WD10EACS drives when I installed them. Solved it by turning off IntelliPark with wdidle3.exe.
http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=142&t=7697

Good to know that newer EADS are not affected!

[littlemauro]

Have been using a 2TB WD20EADS (Western Ditigital 'Green') for two months, ....[CUT]....

This suggests that after 728 operational hours, there have been 128 disc park events. That gives me about 800 years mtbf - obviously not the case in real life but it does indicate that there isn't a problem! Not on my QNAP/WD20EADS anyway.

...[CUT]... It seems the three platter EADS drives aren't affected (WD10EADS, WD15EADS) and that the 4 platter EADS drives are also probably not affected. The 4 platter EACS drives are affected though. Maybe. Probably.

I have struggled with this problem with WD10EACS drives when I installed them. Solved it by turning off IntelliPark with wdidle3.exe.
http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=142&t=7697

Good to know that newer EADS are not affected!

Sorry but it's not true.
As you can read here...
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... 274#458274
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... 321#458321
EADS are also affected by the "head park issue". But WD mask the problem not updating the Load Cycle Count.
And also the wdidle3 workaround is not the better solution for these reasons:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... 066#469066
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... 264#464264

I was very interested on buy 2x wd10eads drives for my new TS-219P but according to this state of place i will look at other HD manufacturers.

[joeyjoey]

Has this been resolved???????????
Littlemauro's post about WD just masking the problem by not updating the count has me concerned to the point that I've been delaying my hdd purchase. Can anyone confirm that recent firmware updates (for either the QNAP or the WD) have fixed anything?

Have been using a 2TB WD20EADS (Western Ditigital 'Green') for two months, ....[CUT]....

This suggests that after 728 operational hours, there have been 128 disc park events. That gives me about 800 years mtbf - obviously not the case in real life but it does indicate that there isn't a problem! Not on my QNAP/WD20EADS anyway.

...[CUT]... It seems the three platter EADS drives aren't affected (WD10EADS, WD15EADS) and that the 4 platter EADS drives are also probably not affected. The 4 platter EACS drives are affected though. Maybe. Probably.

I have struggled with this problem with WD10EACS drives when I installed them. Solved it by turning off IntelliPark with wdidle3.exe.
http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=142&t=7697

Good to know that newer EADS are not affected!

Sorry but it's not true.
As you can read here...
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... 274#458274
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... 321#458321
EADS are also affected by the "head park issue". But WD mask the problem not updating the Load Cycle Count.
And also the wdidle3 workaround is not the better solution for these reasons:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... 066#469066
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... 264#464264

I was very interested on buy 2x wd10eads drives for my new TS-219P but according to this state of place i will look at other HD manufacturers.

[shake-the-disease]

1) The issue with WD green drives is still there, evidence strongly suggests it is being masked
2) There is still a lack of any evidence that this issue is translating into WD green HDD failures
3) Other manufactures have their own relibility issues

If #1 overshadows #2 & #3 in your mind, then buy a Samsung or Seagate if only for the peace of mind. Otherwise buy a WD green drive.

FWIW I bought a WD green drive fully aware of the 3 factors I listed above being in play.

EDIT: But when I migrate to RAID-1 (currently got a single drive) it will be using a drive other than WD Green as risk mitigation.

[littlemauro]

2) There is still a lack of any evidence that this issue is translating into WD green HDD failures

Yes. You're right.

If #1 overshadows #2 & #3 in your mind, then buy a Samsung or Seagate if only for the peace of mind. Otherwise buy a WD green drive.

This is my case. (2x Samsung F2 Ecogreen HD103SI ).

EDIT: But when I migrate to RAID-1 (currently got a single drive) it will be using a drive other than WD Green as risk mitigation.

That's it!

[falofolio]

Hi,

I am a bit worried after reading this thread, because I have two WD10EADS in my 2-bay QNAP. They are only two months old. Although it is stated that there is no evidence that it will affect the lifetime of the HDs, I would like to know how to interpret the figures in this thread.

Numbers on Power_On_Hours, Start_Stop_Count, Load_Cycle_Count, and Power_Cycle_Count have been posted here, but I am not an expert on how to interpret these numbers as I don't know what is normal for these parameters. Of course, I can imagine that those figures strongly depend on how you use your NAS. May be percentages are then a better way of analyzing the situation?!

I read that you can de-activate IntelliPark with the app 'wdidle3.exe', but I cannot find it at Western Digital. Is it third-party software? Is there a Mac-equivalent to it?

Ciao

[joeyjoey]

falofolio,
Hopefully others can give a more definitive and complete answer, but here's what I know after looking into all of this because I too had purchased an EADS drive.

First, wdidle3 is no longer officially available as it was created for older drives. It will VOID your warranty if applied to the EADS drives; this was in an official communication from WD though I do not have a link now. Of course, you can still use it at your own risk, but I also read that the EADS drives have a built-in 25 second timeout no matter how large you make this value in wdidle3. This seems to mean the drive will still go through a load cycle every 30 seconds, it will just park after 25 seconds instead of 8 seconds, but still move back to the tracking position again when the 30 second mark arrives. Maybe this is why WD only even mentioned this option for their enterprise drives which do not have the built-in 25 second timeout. This is all just stuff I've read.

I doubt your numbers show anything disturbing, because from what I've read WD modified the firmware for these drives to not report what they referred to as an "artificially" inflated load cycle count (though I'm not sure what exactly is, or could possibly be, so artificial about it). In any case, if your drives were afflicted with the original lcc problem you'd see numbers reflecting up to 2 load cycles per minute, but depending on your use perhaps somewhere between a third to 90% of that rate; it should be MUCH smaller in all liklihood otherwise (as very rough guesses maybe 10-50 per day instead of something near 1000 or more).

I would be VERY curious as to what your exact numbers are, particularly if the STOP_START_COUTNT is the same as the LOAD_CYCLE_COUNT. Others have said that WD masked the problem by reporting the stop_start count as the LCC, instead of reporting the true number of disk parking activities. They said this was done for the later edition 3 platter EACS drives, but I wondered if the same was not done for the EADS drives when they were released.

[falofolio]

Hi Joeyjoey

First, wdidle3 is no longer officially available as it was created for older drives. It will VOID your warranty if applied to the EADS drives; this was in an official communication from WD though I do not have a link now. Of course, you can still use it at your own risk, but I also read that the EADS drives have a built-in 25 second timeout no matter how large you make this value in wdidle3. This seems to mean the drive will still go through a load cycle every 30 seconds, it will just park after 25 seconds instead of 8 seconds, but still move back to the tracking position again when the 30 second mark arrives. Maybe this is why WD only even mentioned this option for their enterprise drives which do not have the built-in 25 second timeout. This is all just stuff I've read.

I read that you can also switch off the IntelliPark feature completely, instead of increasing the timeout value. Still, I will think twice before using this tool.

I would be VERY curious as to what your exact numbers are, particularly if the STOP_START_COUTNT is the same as the LOAD_CYCLE_COUNT. Others have said that WD masked the problem by reporting the stop_start count as the LCC, instead of reporting the true number of disk parking activities. They said this was done for the later edition 3 platter EACS drives, but I wondered if the same was not done for the EADS drives when they were released.

Here is what I found for my two disks:

Disk#1
004 STOP_START_COUNT: 130
009 Power_On_Hours: 356
012 Power_Cycle_Count: 43
193 LOAD_CYCLE_COUNT: 130

Disk#2
004 STOP_START_COUNT: 140
009 Power_On_Hours: 356
012 Power_Cycle_Count: 53
193 LOAD_CYCLE_COUNT: 140

You see that LLC and SSC for both disks have equal numbers! These values seem normal. Right?

[cheungtsw]

I am not sure if I have the problem.
Mine is the WD10EADS-00M2B0 which I bought it recently for my old ts-209ii and upgraded to ts-219pro 2 days ago.
Below are the smart values:

spin_up_time 7341
start_stop_conunt 80
power_on_hours 141
power_cycle_count 12
power-off_retract_count 11
load_cycle_count 6657