some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

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jeffbaygents
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some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by jeffbaygents » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:04 pm

Greetings QNAP users. I have a new TS-563 and am primarily using it for NetBak Replicator, using RAID 5. I have 2Gb RAM, 1 small Intel SSD drive as cache, 3 Seagate Barracuda Drives (3Tb, 7200 rpm, SATA 3: 6 Gbps). The SATA 3 drives are in bays 3,4,5. In checking each drive, there are no errors reported; however, in 2 of the 3 drives are reporting running "currently" at 3Gbps and also reported that their "max" available speed is 6Gbps. I used to have those drives in a computer and verified they do run at Sata 3 but in this QNAP NAS, a couple of them are only running at SATA 2 speed ! I don't recall if I picked thin/thick volume at the time of setup but don't know if that causes this reduced performance or not. I only use a single volume, RAID 5, resulting in about 5.5 Tb of space. Not sure of what other info anyone might need but I could sure use some guidance as the how I can get it to full performance speed with all 3 drives running at SATA 3. Any ideas ? I'm prepared to format and start all over if that's what it takes. Thanks for any guidance on this.

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Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by P3R » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:28 pm

jeffbaygents wrote:...3 Seagate Barracuda Drives (3Tb, 7200 rpm, SATA 3: 6 Gbps).
Are they the infamous ST3000DM001? If so the disks are not recommended and not compatible with NAS/RAID use. If you search the forum for that model name, you'll find an almost endless row of Qnap user having problems with them.

In that case, the only sane recommendation can be to replace those desktop disk with something from the disk compatibility list. Enterprise or NAS certified disks are strongly recommended.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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pwilson
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Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by pwilson » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:00 am

jeffbaygents wrote:Greetings QNAP users. I have a new TS-563 and am primarily using it for NetBak Replicator, using RAID 5. I have 2Gb RAM, 1 small Intel SSD drive as cache, 3 Seagate Barracuda Drives (3Tb, 7200 rpm, SATA 3: 6 Gbps). The SATA 3 drives are in bays 3,4,5. In checking each drive, there are no errors reported; however, in 2 of the 3 drives are reporting running "currently" at 3Gbps and also reported that their "max" available speed is 6Gbps. I used to have those drives in a computer and verified they do run at Sata 3 but in this QNAP NAS, a couple of them are only running at SATA 2 speed ! I don't recall if I picked thin/thick volume at the time of setup but don't know if that causes this reduced performance or not. I only use a single volume, RAID 5, resulting in about 5.5 Tb of space. Not sure of what other info anyone might need but I could sure use some guidance as the how I can get it to full performance speed with all 3 drives running at SATA 3. Any ideas ? I'm prepared to format and start all over if that's what it takes. Thanks for any guidance on this.


Please review these messages.

Lets check the status of your horrid Seagates. Please access your NAS via SSH (using PuTTY), login as "admin" and run:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
rm -f /tmp/nasreport
touch /tmp/nasreport
chmod +x /tmp/nasreport
cat <<EOF >>/tmp/nasreport
#!/bin/sh
#
# NAS Report by Patrick Wilson
# see: http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=185&t=82260#p366188
#
#
echo "[code]*********************"
echo "** QNAP NAS Report **"
echo "*********************"
echo " "
echo "NAS Model:      \$(getsysinfo model)"
echo "Firmware:       \$(getcfg system version) Build \$(getcfg system 'Build Number')"
echo "System Name:    \$(/bin/hostname)"
echo "Workgroup:      \$(getcfg system workgroup)"
echo "Base Directory: \$(dirname \$(getcfg -f /etc/config/smb.conf Public path))"
echo "NAS IP address: \$(ifconfig \$(getcfg network 'Default GW Device') | grep addr: | awk '{ print \$2 }' | cut -d: -f2)"
echo " "
echo "Default Gateway Device: \$(getcfg network 'Default GW Device')"
echo " "
ifconfig \$(getcfg network 'Default GW Device') | grep -v HWaddr
echo " "
echo -n "DNS Nameserver(s):"
cat /etc/resolv.conf | grep nameserver | cut -d' ' -f2
echo " "
echo " "
echo "HDD Information:"
echo " "
alpha='abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'
drives=\$(getcfg Storage 'Disk Drive Number')
for ((i=1;i<=drives;++i)) ; do
   echo -n "HDD\$i -"
   if [ ! -b /dev/sd\${alpha:\$i-1:1} ] ; then
      echo "Drive absent"
   else
      hdparm -i /dev/sd\${alpha:\$i-1:1} | grep "Model"
      echo " "
      parted /dev/sd\${alpha:\$i-1:1} print
      echo " "
      /sbin/get_hd_smartinfo -d \$i
      echo " "
   fi
done
echo "Volume Status"
echo " "
mdadm -D /dev/md0 /dev/md1 2>/dev/null
echo " "
cat /proc/mdstat
echo " "
echo "Disk Space:"
echo " "
df -h | grep -v qpkg
echo " "
echo "Mount Status:"
echo " "
mount | grep -v qpkg
echo " "
#echo "Contents of \$(dirname \$(getcfg -f /etc/config/smb.conf Public path)):"
#echo " "
#ls -lF \$(dirname \$(getcfg -f /etc/config/smb.conf Public path))/
#echo " "
#echo "Windows Shares:"
#echo " "
#for i in \$(grep \] /etc/config/smb.conf | sed 's/\[//g' | sed 's/\]//g' | grep -v global) ;do
#   echo -n "\$i:"
#   testparm -s -l --section-name=\$i --parameter-name=path 2>/dev/null
#done
#echo " "
#echo "QNAP Media Scanner / Transcoder processes running: "
#echo " "
#/bin/ps | grep medialibrary | grep -v grep
#echo " "
#echo -n "MediaLibrary Configuration file: "
#ls -alF /etc/config/medialibrary.conf
#echo " "
#echo "/etc/config/medialibrary.conf:"
#cat /etc/config/medialibrary.conf
echo " "
echo "Memory Information:"
echo " "
free | grep -v cache:
echo " "
echo "NASReport completed on \$(date +'%Y-%m-%d %T') (\$0) [/code]"
echo " "
EOF
sleep 2
clear
/tmp/nasreport
#done


Please cut&paste the output of the resulting NASReport back to this message thread.

Patrick M. Wilson
Victoria, BC Canada
QNAP TS-470 Pro w/ 4 * Western Digital WD30EFRX WD Reds (RAID5) - - Single 8.1TB Storage Pool FW: QTS 4.2.0 Build 20151023 - Kali Linux v1.06 (64bit)
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jeffbaygents
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Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by jeffbaygents » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:35 pm

Thank you for your input pwilson. Before choosing QNAP, I did check for compatibility and they used to be on the list but now are not. Hmmmm. Oh well. Am afraid to replace with something else on the compatibility list because then they too might be pulled off. Two of the drives are your undesired models yet, one of them is the one that's working okay at 6 Gb/s. Don't know what Putty is but, there's no fix since the drives aren't on the compatibility list anymore, right? Thanks for identifying the cause. Take care.

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pwilson
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Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by pwilson » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:49 pm

jeffbaygents wrote:Thank you for your input pwilson. Before choosing QNAP, I did check for compatibility and they used to be on the list but now are not. Hmmmm. Oh well. Am afraid to replace with something else on the compatibility list because then they too might be pulled off. Two of the drives are your undesired models yet, one of them is the one that's working okay at 6 Gb/s. Don't know what Putty is but, there's no fix since the drives aren't on the compatibility list anymore, right? Thanks for identifying the cause. Take care.


Those Barracudas are "Desktop" drives. They are not suitable for NAS/RAID use. All manufacturers, (including Seagate), manufacture NAS/RAID specific drives. Buy one of those NAS/RAID specific drives. I personally use WD Reds.

Patrick M. Wilson
Victoria, BC Canada
QNAP TS-470 Pro w/ 4 * Western Digital WD30EFRX WD Reds (RAID5) - - Single 8.1TB Storage Pool FW: QTS 4.2.0 Build 20151023 - Kali Linux v1.06 (64bit)
Forums: View My Profile - Search My Posts - View My Photo - View My Location - Top Community Posters
QNAP: Turbo NAS User Manual - QNAP Wiki - QNAP Tutorials - QNAP FAQs

Please review: When you're asking a question, please include the following.

P3R
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Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by P3R » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:26 pm

jeffbaygents wrote:Am afraid to replace with something else on the compatibility list because then they too might be pulled off.
Unless you want to have a unreliable storage, you really need to replace your malfunctioning disks. Therefore you have no choice but I'd say there's also no real reason to be afraid.

The only disks that have been removed from the compatibility list are WD Green and Seagate DL/DM desktop disks. The reason being the overwhelming problems reported by users with those lines of disks. There is no other disk line being close to have even 1 % of that complaint history.

It is to not be caught in a similar situation my advice have always been:
  • Don't choose a disk model that is absolutely new on the market.
  • In addition to checking the compatibility list, also check this forum for user reports on the disk model number (no posts mean no trouble).
Following the above advice makes the choice of disks pretty safe.

There is no problem mixing brands or models of disks in the NAS or even in the same RAID. Personally I prefer HGST and WD over Seagate.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by dolbyman » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:48 am

at the end of the day .. 3Gb\s vs 6Gb/s ... neither the drives nor network speed (unless you have 10Gb/s network) should be bottle necked by it

jeffbaygents
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Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by jeffbaygents » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:05 am

Thanks again Mr. Wilson for your detailed explanation. I reviewed your posts on various topics when deciding over QNAP or Synology. Your posts gave me added confidence that QNAP was the long term intelligent choice so I went with it. I'm amazed at your thoroughly detailed explanations to me and to others. You've explained this in such a professional and intelligent manner, I realize now that as I advance to RAID 10, I'll begin to gradually acquire drives built for NAS/RAID, one at a time. I didn't realize that before. I've got about 2 yrs left on the 5 yr Seagate warranty so I'll replace them as they fail. Once I get to RAID 10 and have all the drives replaced, I'll be good to go. Again, thank you very much.

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Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by P3R » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:40 am

dolbyman wrote:at the end of the day .. 3Gb\s vs 6Gb/s ... neither the drives nor network speed (unless you have 10Gb/s network) should be bottle necked by it
I absolutely agree but it isn't the 3 Gbit/s per se that's the problem here.

The fact that a NAS and it's disks, all capable of 6 Gbit/s, can't establish more than 3 Gbit/s is a sign of incompatibility, as if we needed more signs with the extreme high number of failed RAIDs reported with Seagate DL/DMs (and WD Green). :roll:
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

P3R
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden (UTC+01:00)

Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by P3R » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:10 am

jeffbaygents wrote:...as I advance to RAID 10...
You may have good reasons to aim for RAID 10 but before deciding, I hope you're aware that RAID 6 offer better disk redundancy than RAID 10 in a 4-5 bay NAS?
I've got about 2 yrs left on the 5 yr Seagate warranty so I'll replace them as they fail.
As far as I know, Seagate desktop disks (formerly known as Barracuda) have never had more than a 3 year warranty. In 2011 it was down to 1 year but I guess they had to back down from that so now the data sheet claims 2 years.

Please explain if I've misunderstood anything.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

jeffbaygents
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:38 pm

Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by jeffbaygents » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:45 am

Thanks for your reply and comments.
Regarding the warranty, there was a special program that Seagate ran with BestBuy (purchase online only) when I bought 4 of them as I noticed the 5 yr warranty was unusual. As it turns out, after talking with a Seagate RMA tech about a year ago (on my first drive failure after 2 yrs), he said they had a special program w/the longer warranties only through some of their larger retailers, such as BestBuy. Even the serial nbrs of the drives don't work on their online web page for validating warranties; he said I will always have to call it in for verification and then to be given an RMA.

Regarding my goal of RAID 10, you recommended RAID 6. I understand that RAID 6 does offer greater redundancy than 10. And I understand that the redundancy of 10 is offered on only 1 drive of each pair. Knowing all of this, I have always maintained 2 sets of backups on 2 separate systems. I love the performance of RAID 10 and do not require that level of redundancy due to the double sets of backups (plus the third backup that is stored in a safe and replaced once a year). Everyone else's situation is different, I understand. This unit is only used in my home, I have double backups, and will enjoy the speed when I get to RAID 10.

By the way, I've ordered 2 of the WD Reds you were recommending to me. Just can't afford more right now but, over time, I'll get the other two Seagate desktop drives replaced. I'll ensure that both of the 2 REDS are on one side of the pair. When they arrive, I'm going to wipe my QNAP NAS and start over. I've been learning more about volumes and pooling and I did a single static so, I've got more to learn and change... :mrgreen:

Again, thanks for all your recommendations and knowledge. :mrgreen:

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Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by P3R » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:48 pm

jeffbaygents wrote:Regarding my goal of RAID 10, you recommended RAID 6. I understand that RAID 6 does offer greater redundancy than 10. And I understand that the redundancy of 10 is offered on only 1 drive of each pair.
Great, then you probably also know that you will have the inconvenience of resinstalling the complete NAS when you lose both disks in a drive pair.
This unit is only used in my home, I have double backups, and will enjoy the speed when I get to RAID 10.
Do you also know that the speed advantage of RAID 10 is hugely overrated in home user applications? RAID 10 in a 4 disk configuration offer only marginally better performance than RAID 6 on a fast NAS like yours and only when writing. Unless having a 10 Gbps ethernet, the network will most likely be your bottleneck anyway so in real life I doubt you would notice any performance difference at all.

Another advantage for RAID 6 is that, when needed, you would be able to expand a RAID 6 volume using all the 5 bays that you have paid for.

RAID 10 is great in enterprise applications with huge arrays of many disks when maximum write performance is a requirement (often with databases). In small home user application, especially with 4 bays, the superiority of RAID 10 is mainly a myth today and RAID 6 is undeservingly put down because it used to be slow with the low performing CPUs, common in home user NASes some years back.

By all means, choose RAID 10 if that is what you prefer. Now in my opinion you have all the facts to make an informed decision.

Good luck!
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by schumaku » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:05 pm

As this happens every now and then ... quoting myself from a different thread:

If the NAS does experience a communication issue on the SATA bus, it will lower the speed ie. from 6 Gb/s to 3 Gb/s or 1.5 Gb/s - this explains why it's back on 6 Gb/s after a reboot or unplug/replug (later is a little bit drastic) - the communication issue has not returned.

Here is an example of a SATA unit having a SATA bus communication or signal issue, leading to a speed down to 3 Gb/s:

[196188.027884] ata10: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x4200000 action 0xe frozen
[196188.035499] ata10: irq_stat 0x80000040, connection status changed
[196188.041722] ata10: SError: { BadCRC DevExch }
[196188.046209] ata10: hard resetting link
[196188.050085] Speed down due to signal issue.
[196188.054392] Speed down due to signal issue.
[196188.936888] ata10: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 320)

Unless it's an SSD ... the 6 Gb/s is for stomach flattering only, no mechanical HDD will reach those numbers anyway, leaving some cache access peeks alone.


Note that some NAS models in general, or higher ports numbers might be implemented in 3 Gb/s only.

jeffbaygents
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Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by jeffbaygents » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:53 am

Thanks for the added info on saying that SATA 6 is very little different than the speed for RAID 10. I haven't tried it yet and read a few comparison articles and based it on their stats and comments on it. After hearing yours, it seems worth a try to compare SATA 6 speed with SATA 10. If it's not that much different, I'll go with it. If it's like what they say in the other articles, I'm going with RAID 10.

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Re: some SATA 3 drives operating at SATA 2 speed?

Post by P3R » Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:19 am

schumaku wrote:Note that some NAS models in general, or higher ports numbers might be implemented in 3 Gb/s only.
I'm aware of that the very low end models only support SATA 3 Gb/s (when the technical specification only say SATA and not specifically SATA 6 Gb/s) but do you have any examples of on what models the higher port numbers are limited? I haven't found that documented anywhere... :S
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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