Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

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sansiloptyltd
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Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by sansiloptyltd » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:49 pm

Hi everyone,
I need some assistance with correct setup of volumes on my NAS.
I have a 2 bay TS-253A with 2 x WD Red 8TB drives.
- I have 2 networked DVR's that will record directly to the NAS (about 1.5TB spare required for each)
- I have 2 network users that require their own dedicated/private storage of about 1TB each
- Finally I need 2 TB of shared disk space for where the users can share files.
I was thinking of using RAID 1 to protect myself from drive failure
What is the best way to set up the storage?
Your advice will be highly appreciated as I do want to set it up the correct way right from the start and rather ask advise from those with experience.
QNAP 2bay TS-253A with 2 x 8TB WD Red

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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by storageman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:03 pm

Don't like the idea of too many volumes, personally I'd create 2 thin volumes and use shares and permissions to manage them.
One for DVRs and the other for the share and dedicated space - (system) volume.
5 volumes would be overkill in terms of management on a 2 bay.
Don't allocate all space either, leave a little in pool for emergencies.

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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by sansiloptyltd » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:11 pm

Thanks for the reply.
Is there a specific reason why you recommend Thin Volumes in this instance?
QNAP 2bay TS-253A with 2 x 8TB WD Red

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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by storageman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:21 pm

sansiloptyltd wrote:Thanks for the reply.
Is there a specific reason why you recommend Thin Volumes in this instance?


Because you probably cannot guarantee who will use the space first. Thin volumes give you the most flexibility.
You could make the DVR volume thick if you have a wrap around at 3TB on the space used.

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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:31 pm

there is no 1 size fits all since everyone has different requirements.

as for me i choose thick because

1. i can do a single volume and pool. i don't do anything fancy, so thats fine.
2. it provides access to all the features the qnap has to offer such as vault. you may not be able to use that if you opt for the alternative solutions.
3. performance also is decent with this mode.

this was for a ts-653a which is a 6 bay model fyi :)
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[Backup] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) single disks.
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228
[^] QNAP TS-128
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Win10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


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[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by sansiloptyltd » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:50 pm

storageman wrote:Because you probably cannot guarantee who will use the space first. Thin volumes give you the most flexibility.
You could make the DVR volume thick if you have a wrap around at 3TB on the space used.


You have lost me!
Sorry, I am still new to the Thick and Thin volumes topic.

From what I have gathered so far is that Thick has slightly better performance than Thin, but this has the most flexibility!
I am also not sure what performance I will get with my new NAS and hope t get the sweet spot beween performance, functionality and ease of use
Is it possible to use a static volume in my setup which has the best performance, or will this limit me in setting up the unit for my intended use with DVR's, users and shared files?
QNAP 2bay TS-253A with 2 x 8TB WD Red

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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by storageman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:09 pm

Correct thick are better for performance but allocate space from the pool there and then so you can't "overprovision" space.

With thin volumes, say you have 7TB in the pool, you could create 2 x 7TB volumes A & B. Whoever uses the space gets it, so A could take 5TB and B could take 2TB or anyother combination like A taking all 7TB. With thin volumes space gets deducated from the overall pool "as it is used", whereas with thick volumes the space is deducted from the pool "regardless of whether the space is used or not".

If you use a static volume you won't be able to expand storage with expansion unit UX-500 or use some other benefits of storage pools such as the thresholds.

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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by sansiloptyltd » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:20 pm

Thanks,
I appreciate you taking your time to explain and assist!
This does make sense to me now.

I should have mentioned this in the beginning:
I do want to allocate a fixed amount of space for each DVR(1.5TB each), each user(1TB each) and for the shared space(1TB).
They should not be able to use whatever space is available.
This wil leave me with about 1TB of available space on the NAS for emergencies.
What will be your proposed setup for this?
QNAP 2bay TS-253A with 2 x 8TB WD Red

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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by storageman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:32 pm

So use thick volumes then.
I suggest you don't allocate all space in the pool, keep some back, because if you fill a volume and ignore warnings all sorts of problems can occur
Keep a few GB free allows you to expand a volume in trouble later to clear full issues.

Also you could use User Quota for the two users rather than separate volumes.

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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:39 pm

storageman wrote:I suggest you don't allocate all space in the pool, keep some back, because if you fill a volume and ignore warnings all sorts of problems can occur


i set a space warning alert for 90% thought that would had been sufficient, but guess not :S
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[Backup] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) single disks.
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228
[^] QNAP TS-128
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Win10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by storageman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:55 pm

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
storageman wrote:I suggest you don't allocate all space in the pool, keep some back, because if you fill a volume and ignore warnings all sorts of problems can occur


i set a space warning alert for 90% thought that would had been sufficient, but guess not :S


It's optional not a rule, but it's another level of protection.
How many people don't setup SMTP email alerts or fail to check for warnings or your just not there, and then those people without recycle bin turned on where you could have cleared space.
And DVRs are good for plowing on filling up space when you thought you set a wrap around at x space.

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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by sansiloptyltd » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:13 pm

OK,
So I create 2 thick volumes:
Volume1 - 3TB for the 2 DVR's (Create a share for each DVR and manage quota)
Volume2 - 3TB for users and shared files; Create a share for each user and the pool - manage max size with User Quota
Do I have it correct?
Any thing else to do or consider?
QNAP 2bay TS-253A with 2 x 8TB WD Red

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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by storageman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:03 pm

sansiloptyltd wrote:OK,
So I create 2 thick volumes:
Volume1 - 3TB for the 2 DVR's (Create a share for each DVR and manage quota)
Volume2 - 3TB for users and shared files; Create a share for each user and the pool - manage max size with User Quota
Do I have it correct?
Any thing else to do or consider?


Looks good to me. But do it the other way around because Volume1 has default shares and other relevant apps:

Volume1 (system) "the first volume" - 3TB for users and shared files; Create a share for each user and the pool - manage max size with User Quota
Volume2 - 3TB for the 2 DVR's (Create a share for each DVR and manage quota)

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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:32 pm

i referred to the manual, this is the only info i'm aware of that discussed differences between static, thick and thin :}

Note:

* Static Single Volume: This mode offers the best performance but does not support thin
provisioning, space reclamation and snapshots. For this option, the RAID group itself is a
volume.

* Thick Multiple Volumes: This method can create multiple volumes on the same storage
pool and instantly allocate physical storage space for the volume. It has better
performance than thin volumes while also offering flexibility.

* Thin Multiple Volumes: Thin Multiple Volumes: This method can over-allocate the
volume capacity for each volume regardless of the physical storage limit. Disk space is
only used when files are written to the volume. After files are deleted, this space can be
reclaimed for increasing the free space of the storage pool. The maximum size of thin
multiple volumes is 20 times that of the storage pool's free space. With thin provisioning,
volume space is fully utilized.

*A thick volume is usually more efficient for high frequency read/write activities. Because
the space has been allocated for the volume, the predicament of insufficient physical
space can be avoided, but the use of space is relatively inefficient.

* NAS models that do not support Storage Pools can only create Static Single Volumes.
Please refer to the QNAP website, product information, and software specifications for
more details.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[Backup] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) single disks.
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228
[^] QNAP TS-128
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Win10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

sansiloptyltd
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Re: Setup: Which volume setup to choose: Static, Thick or Thin

Post by sansiloptyltd » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:08 pm

Thanks everyone. Matter is resolved and everything is working as planned!
QNAP 2bay TS-253A with 2 x 8TB WD Red

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