TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

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alaska99
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TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby alaska99 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:03 am

Hi,
Yesterday I try play a 4k HEVC video with Plex on my apple TV 4. I can see that Plex is transcoding the video in the status page but the video play somes secondes then lag...
I have 20 Gig of RAM and added a SSD cache 860EVO 500Gb in my NAS.
I try too with Emby player and same lag...

I'm a very disappointed to see that my NAS can not play effectively video in 4K :(

Someone can help me how play 4k video with my NAS? Should I add more RAM? Add a second SSD cache? Can I add a more powerfull PCI video card in my NAS and use it to transcode? Or my CPU is just too weak and nothing to do?

Thank for your help
TVS-873 with 6 disk HGST of 8TB 7200RPM Raid 5
Samsung SSD 860EVO 500 Gb cache
Samsung SSD 860EVO 1 Tb Qtier
32Gb RAM

dolbyman
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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby dolbyman » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:37 pm

you can throw more ram or faster drives/cache at it all you want, your cpu is probably too weak (check cpu usage while transcoding)

serve it via dlna or smb and it should work just fine

my old 419p+ serves 4k hdr via twonky dlna just fine

gggplaya
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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby gggplaya » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:44 am

Do you have an Apple TV 4, or Apple TV 4k???? The ATV4 only has 100mbps ethernet connector and doesn't have h.265 hardware decoding. So it won't direct play and 4k h.264 is probably a huge file.

I have an apple tv 4k, and if you use the Infuse app (https://firecore.com/) it will direct play every 4k video from the Plex server using h.265 hardware decoding and it has the full paid audio licenses as well.

Also, your NAS is not the Ryzen model, it's a much lower end AMD processor. Way to slow to transcode 4k video.

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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby Moogle Stiltzkin » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:28 am

robbie ran a 4k test for it here if you're interested in checking out
https://nascompares.com/plex/qnap-tvs-4 ... -4k-1080p/


compare that to the ts-877 series
https://nascompares.com/2018/08/12/qnap ... and-h-265/
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Trexx
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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby Trexx » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:30 am

Cpu isn't beefy enough to handle 4k real-time transcoding in the x73 family. Either go with something like the inFuse app or something like the Nvidia Shield TV which can play about anything 4k or otherwise.
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.3.5.x
QTier (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar NAS QTier (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 525GB Crucial MX300 m.2's
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 32GB Kit DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060, ACX 2.0(1 Fan), 6GB
UPS: CyberPower AVR1350 Ext. Backup: USB 3.0 Seagate 5TB
Media Boxes: Nvidia ShieldTV Pro, AppleTV 4, Roku Stick

Model: TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.3.5.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq

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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby gggplaya » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:57 pm

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:robbie ran a 4k test for it here if you're interested in checking out
https://nascompares.com/plex/qnap-tvs-4 ... -4k-1080p/


compare that to the ts-877 series
https://nascompares.com/2018/08/12/qnap ... and-h-265/


You can see that in that test, he was pushing 12.3MB/s which is basically 98.4mbps at 100% efficiency with no networking overhead. Like I said before, the ATV4 only has a 100mbps ethernet connector, it wasn't designed for 4K if that's what you're using.

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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby Trexx » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:05 pm

Nowhere did OP state he was having a NW issue.

OP - If you are transcoding from 4k HEVC, the CPU is likely maxing out near 100% as it will have to transcode to 1080p via SW. At roughtly 4800 passmarks, it is just not beefy enough to handle that for most things. Since your file will likely have variable bitrate encoding, there maybe parts where it can keep up transcoding real-time and other part where it can't.

Option 1) go with inFuse and move the transcoding onto the ATV where it can likely take advantage of the GPU/etc. to transcode. Cheapest/easiest option. Plus latest inFuse Pro can now integrate with Plex library so that helps keep your playback status/etc. in sync.

Option 2) go native 4k compatible playback device (ATV 4k, Nvidia Shield TV, etc). One advantage of NVidia ShieldTV is you also get a free Plex Server w/HW Transcoding support with it. You can still leverage the QNAP for the backend storage for it.

Option 3) Pre-transcode file to 1080p via Plex or other tool such as Handbrake - Free option other than lost diskspace.

Option 4) Get beefier NAS or model that supports 4k HW transcoding - Most expensive option.
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.3.5.x
QTier (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar NAS QTier (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 525GB Crucial MX300 m.2's
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 32GB Kit DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060, ACX 2.0(1 Fan), 6GB
UPS: CyberPower AVR1350 Ext. Backup: USB 3.0 Seagate 5TB
Media Boxes: Nvidia ShieldTV Pro, AppleTV 4, Roku Stick

Model: TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.3.5.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq

sflbrian
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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby sflbrian » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:49 pm

alaska99 wrote:Hi,
Yesterday I try play a 4k HEVC video with Plex on my apple TV 4. I can see that Plex is transcoding the video in the status page but the video play somes secondes then lag...
I have 20 Gig of RAM and added a SSD cache 860EVO 500Gb in my NAS.
I try too with Emby player and same lag...

I'm a very disappointed to see that my NAS can not play effectively video in 4K :(

Someone can help me how play 4k video with my NAS? Should I add more RAM? Add a second SSD cache? Can I add a more powerfull PCI video card in my NAS and use it to transcode? Or my CPU is just too weak and nothing to do?

Thank for your help


Plex does not support HW assisted transcoding for your processor. But Emby does, so you should have seen some better results with Emby. I don't know if your SOC processor can help with the specific format of your file (4k, HEVC, 10 bit?). I admit I am having trouble getting HW assisted transcoding to work on my TVS-663, but others seem to have it working for their AMD based NAS.

Plex may support our units in the future, for Plex Pass holders. In the meantime you should spend some time in the Emby forums to troubleshoot your issue there.
System: TVS-663
16 GB Ram
4 x (4 TB) Seagate ST4000VN000-1H4168
Raid 6 configuration

nop08258
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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby nop08258 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:04 pm

I think your NAS model X73 series is compatible with an add-on gpu card from NVIDIA. Get an 1050 model and try again. (you have to upgrade to QTS4.3.5).

It will do just fine with that card...

gggplaya
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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby gggplaya » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:19 pm

nop08258 wrote:I think your NAS model X73 series is compatible with an add-on gpu card from NVIDIA. Get an 1050 model and try again. (you have to upgrade to QTS4.3.5).

It will do just fine with that card...


I don't think a 1050 will work just yet because plex can't really take advantage of h.265 encoding just yet. I believe plex still encodes with h.264 and struggles to encode to 4k with any gpu due to the high bitrate necessary with h.264.

I think the only real option for 4k viewing is direct play to INFUSE on the apple tv4k or using an Nvidia Shield as your server and directplaying on it. Subtitles may trigger a transcode and I'm not sure how that works on the shield as a client since I don't own one, but Infuse on the ATV4k handles subtitles on the client side, so no transcoding is necessary. Or you can build a beefy plex server with a Ryzen 8 core CPU or i7 8700k and use CPU transcoding.

The only thing the OP can do now I think is to read the 4k file, and transcode it down to 1080p which he might have enough processing power for.

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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby nop08258 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:44 pm

I gggplaya,

Plex Does encode 4K even 10bit HDR files with an Nvda gpu card. You have some users with that feedback in Plex forums:
https://forums.plex.tv/t/hw-transcoding ... 0/232030/6

In those cases they were opting for the Quadro P2000 due to the unrestricted encodes. The 1050 can only transcode 2 files simultaneously. But for QNAP 873, the 1050 is the only supported gpu card.

The only thing that I am not sure if it is possible to do gps passthroug for the virtualization station on that model. (The guys in plex forums used plex installed on windows)

gggplaya
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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby gggplaya » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:07 pm

nop08258 wrote:I gggplaya,

Plex Does encode 4K even 10bit HDR files with an Nvda gpu card. You have some users with that feedback in Plex forums:
https://forums.plex.tv/t/hw-transcoding ... 0/232030/6

In those cases they were opting for the Quadro P2000 due to the unrestricted encodes. The 1050 can only transcode 2 files simultaneously. But for QNAP 873, the 1050 is the only supported gpu card.

The only thing that I am not sure if it is possible to do gps passthrough for the virtualization station on that model. (The guys in plex forums used plex installed on windows)


No it doesn't gpu encode h.265 HEVC as you can see in Chevvy's picture in the thread you listed. Even with the Nvidia shield client which can play everything, it takes a HEVC H.265 4k video and transcodes it to H.264 4k for playback.

What I didn't know was that the Professional Quaddro cards had enough power to do it. That's the first thread I've seen with people using expensive pro-cards to gpu transcode. But the consumer cards the GTX 1050/ti, GTX1060/1070/1080/ti all use the same gpu decoding/encoding block within their gpu, so their encoding performance is the same regardless of which GPU you buy with the exception of higher clock speeds. I know that those card's are not up to the task of transcoding high bitrate 4k. Perhaps they're powerful enough for lower bitrate 4k like streams from netflix, but not something you'd rip off a 4k UHD blu ray.

I wouldn't give someone purchase advise unless you solidly know it'll work. I only see people referencing a 1050 will decode a h.265 4k video and transcode to 1080p, but haven't seen anything where a 1050 could be used to transcode to 4k h.265.

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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby nop08258 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:27 am

Well,

I am a bit confused but I am just an user trying to help and learn something. From what I’ve read, yes, you are right, Plex isn’t yet capable of using Nvidia cards for decoding. Thank you for that update. Just for encode! It is yes able to use for hw decode / encode on intelsync compatible processors (coffee lake or above I suppose).

https://forums.plex.tv/t/hardware-accel ... x/233510/3

For what I can imagine, this is only a matter of time (short I suppose) for Plex to update to the new FFmpeg

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... C-HEVC-VP9

https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/blob/r ... /Changelog

Regarding the 1050, once Plex updates FFmpeg codec, supposedly the is enough power for 4K 10bit decoder using NVDEC... just because Nvidia says so... :DD

https://developer.nvidia.com/video-enco ... ort-matrix

Finally returning to the ts-873, it just depends if the native plex app will use this features or using GPUs passtrough and VS install windows and then Plex.

Hope to have contributed in a positive way.

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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby gggplaya » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:59 am

Until that happens, I would just recommend a good client device to direct play 4k 10 bit HDR video. My ATV4k with Infuse has zero issues with any of my high bitrate 4k movies. The only thing is that it will decode dolby atmos to AAC audio because apple is only now releasing dolby atmos support to developers.

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Re: TVS-873 plex transcoding 4k lagging

Postby Trexx » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:59 am

I would not assume GPU pass through will be supported for VMs on the TS-x73 line. I had not heard anything from Qnap about that.


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Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.3.5.x
QTier (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar NAS QTier (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 525GB Crucial MX300 m.2's
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 32GB Kit DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060, ACX 2.0(1 Fan), 6GB
UPS: CyberPower AVR1350 Ext. Backup: USB 3.0 Seagate 5TB
Media Boxes: Nvidia ShieldTV Pro, AppleTV 4, Roku Stick

Model: TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.3.5.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq


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