Qnap tvs-672xt mainly NVME setup

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gunnerxl
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Qnap tvs-672xt mainly NVME setup

Post by gunnerxl » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:51 pm

Hi folks, long time lurker and Qnap loyalist. Finally decided to get a new build going and seeking you experts advice on how to setup.

Moving from my trust old TS-253 Pro with 2x 6TB SATA 7200rpm HGST drives in RAID-1 to a brand new TVS-672XT with the following setup (&upgrades):

-2x HGST 6TB drives from old NAS
-1x Toshiba 6TB SATA drive
-6x Intel 2TB 660P m2 nvme drives
-1x QM2-4P-384 PCIe Quad m2 extension card - called qnap support to confirm compatibility with tvs-672xt
-2x 16GB Crucial [CT16G4SFD8266] memory upgrade - how do I tell if they’re running dual channel?

Questions/Advice:

1)Given my current setup at RAID-1 I wouldn’t mind migrating over settings and apps etc but would that be possible with the additional 6TB drive and move from RAID-1 to I’m thinking RAID-5 for the SATA drives?
2a) A seperate RAID-5 array for the 6x nvme 2TB drives in the built in 2x m2 slots plus 4x slots on PCIe extension card.
or 2b) 4x 2TB drives on RAID-5 via the expansion card and 2x 2TB drives on RAID-1 acting as read-write SSD cache.
3) Trust optimal setup for system volume drive to be put on the 2TB RAID-5 array?
4) Would the stock nvme heatsinks from qnap be suffice or should I upgrade to these after market ones: 2 Pack M.2 NVMe Aluminum Heatsinks Cooler with Nano Silicone Thermal Pad https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07J1VKPSX/re ... sDbEQYHRHB I’m unsure if they’ll fit on the quad nvme extension card given it comes with a ran albeit also stock basic qnap nvme heatsinks that look similar if not a little thicker in size.
5) 10GBE link to Netgear R9000 router using 6Com SFP+ to Ethernet adapter: 6COM Netgear Compatible 10GBase-T… https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075WQWVS5?re ... b_ap_share 1
6) Based on the above, neither option is going with Qtier - just traditional RAID arrays and if recommended by you experts are useful for my use cases, can sacrifice 2x 2TB NVME’s for SSD Cache.

Thoughts and advice much appreciated. NAS mainly used in order of frequency:
Plex server, direct media streaming server, VPN Box, transmission torrent server, VM’s for Windows / Android environments.

Thanks!

dolbyman
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Re: Qnap tvs-672xt mainly NVME setup

Post by dolbyman » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:10 am

besides the VM's, I'd just create a large RAID6 with fast 7200RPM drives. Plex and other media streaming is strictly sequential load, no need for tons of IOPS here

for the VM's you could do a RAID1 dedicated NVMe volume (could be smaller than 2TB to save costs.. normally you attach storage to VM's via network, as you don't want those virtual disks to balloon to large sizes)

I seem to remember though, there was some issues with VM's on NVMe, might be fixed by now

I'd get a dedicated switch for 10GbE, the netgear only has a builtin 1GbE switch, so even if that SFP+ adapter works with the QNAP, the clients will only get 1GbE

gunnerxl
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Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:13 pm

Re: Qnap tvs-672xt mainly NVME setup

Post by gunnerxl » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:23 pm

Thanks for your response.

Why would you recommend RAID6 over RAID5? To make the most of the usable TB space I'm inclined to have two RAID5's running a 'slow' one with the 3x 8TB 7200rpm SATA's and a 'fast' one with the 6x 2TB NVME's. Granted there is more redudancy in a RAID6 array, it would also mean a lot let usable space?

I checked and have seem various folks run VM's off their NVME drives so doesn't seem to be an issue any longer. So you're suggesting perhaps split into two RAID5's with the exception of 2x 2TB NVME drives in a RAID1 config dedicated solely to VM's? Interesting, wouldn't I want those virtual disks stored on an NVME volume too for maximum speed?

What are your thoughts on the SSD Cache and whether I should set aside 2x 2TB NVME's for caching instead of storage.

Yes a 10GBe switch is indeed on the future roadmap, for now I'll be just happy to have an optimal data transfer link between the NAS and router which will then serve the rest of my devices in the network at gigabit speeds.

dolbyman
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Location: Vancouver BC , Canada

Re: Qnap tvs-672xt mainly NVME setup

Post by dolbyman » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:33 pm

RAID6 because of two drives redundancy and the more spindles the better performance (that's why just one large RAID6) and splitting your total space into two RAID5 will "sacrifice" two drives overall space to parity as well

caching has mixed results, some scenarios reported by users make caching even slower (e.g. cache is small and continuous write operations fill the cache.. so now the disks have to deal with the data flow directly and the de-staging of cache)

I went with a Qtier myself, all data that needs fast/frequent access (like VM's) is handed over to the fast tier and all other storage remains on the disks, cherry on top, the qtier storage actually adds to the overall storage capacity, cache would just be "lost"

gunnerxl
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Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:13 pm

Re: Qnap tvs-672xt mainly NVME setup

Post by gunnerxl » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:10 pm

Ahh understood RAID 6 is additional redundancy but I'm happy to take the risk with RAID 5 and reap the increased usable TB capacity for now given I'm going mainly NVME.

Yeah I read a couple articles or forum threads where they say caching does provide mixed results hence my confusion. And as an alternative with qtier, I've also read that given the mix of mainly NVME ssd's but also 3x 7200rpm SATA's, qtier wouldn't necessarily make the most of the speed optimisations on the ssd's when you throw in a bunch of higher capacity SATA drives into the mix! Not sure really?!

I guess by going with 2 traditional RAID-5 arrays I can always add / remove SSD cache by taking / adding two of the 2TB NVME's from the SSD array.

If anybody else has an opinion on the optimal setup please share your expertise!

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Yop1403
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Re: Qnap tvs-672xt mainly NVME setup

Post by Yop1403 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:05 am

Hi gunnerxl,

I wonder what setup you ended up with. Personally I opted for a (currently) RAID-1 HDD with a RAID-1 SSD Nvme cache, I will expand to RAID-5 some time I can find a good deal...

Some feedback from a QNAP rookie as I have just moved from an old Synology DS214+ to the TVS672XT a month ago. Basically my old Synology which I loved was already unbearable speed-wise, I have already worked a lot with external USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10 Gbit) SSDs due to that fact. Synology has announced an interesting NAS with 10 GboE (1620xs) but I have given up waiting after ca. 8 months, don't know if they will ever release this NAS...

My setup comprises:
* 2xSeagate Ironwolf 12TB in RAID-1 (I'll call this HDD RAID-1 from here), I'm waiting for a good deal for my drives to upgrade to RAID-5 as my HDDs are filling fast... I have a huge movie collection and I'm also cutting videos on Final Cut Pro X. I chose speed and hence a single static volume only as I also have no need for snapshots here.
* 2 old Hitachi 4TB from the previous NAS in RAID-0 (yes, really and yes: I'm aware of the higher risk with RAID-0) due to the speed. Redundancy is not an issue for me as these disks are used for backup of the HDD RAID-1 and for Mac Time Machine Backup. Worst case all these could be gone if the RAID-0 fails which doesn't matter to me as I can recreate the backup data. I have chosen a thick volume as I can resize the volumes for Backup and Time Machine easily.
* 2 SSD Silicon Power 1TB NVMe Gen3x4 M.2 2280 SU001TBP34A80M28UA in RAID-1 and set up as read/write cache. This means I have ca. 700 GB buffer (only 70% of the 1TB due 30% to overprovisioning - the QNAP overprovisioning tool is quite cool as it gives you a nice overview of R/W speeds vs the overprovisioning factor!) for the daily shovelling of data which is more than enough for me.

Other things:
* With HBS 3 I am making daily backups of my HDD RAID-1 to the RAID-0 (had to deactivate Qudedup as it never worked properly and always stopped the backups with errors. Since deactivation all backups run fine --> any hints on this Qudedup thing are highly welcome) and also daily 1-way file-by-file syncs to a number of external backup drives.
* I am connecting to the NAS over a 2 meter active Thunderbolt 3 cable. It is a bit tricky to check the speed as in the Mac system info tool as it says 20 Gb x 2 so I first thought I had only 20 Gbit/s and I suspected my cables to have problems. It is due to the sturdy housing also rather quiet. The fan are hardly ever heard, I mainly hear the old Hitachi hard disks as they are noisier than the Ironwolf disks.

As per speed measurements with AJA I am measuring speeds of (there is quite some variance as the speed tests show slightly different results every time, with SMB showing much more consistency than AFP which I need for Time Machine backup)
* Over SMB: Write 663-965 MB/s, Read 1500-1624 MB/s
* Interestingly over AFP the speeds are significantly lower: Write 478-501 MB/s, Read 771-1196 MB/s

As I'm running containers and virtual machines my memory of 8 GB is now maxing out when I am running the Win 10 VM - so I've just ordered an upgrade to 32 GB...

All in all I'm now quite happy with my setup as is. All in all IMHO I think the Synology software is much better and more mature and hence more stable (pls don't beat me up for this as I'm saying this in a QNAP forum) but they are currently not keeping up with QNAP''s hardware lineup - The Thunderbolt connection was one of my main buying arguments and it really rocks! QNAP nevertheless have to do some homework. I find the HBS 3 generally quite quirky and Qsync is also sometimes acting a little weird...
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QNAP TVS672XT with 2x HDD Ironwolf 12TB in RAID1, 2x HDD Hitachi 4TB in RAID0, 2x NVME SSD Silicon Power 1TB as R/W cache in RAID1, connected to MacBook Pro 2019 over TB3. AJA Write 663-965 MB/s / Read 1500-1624 MB/s over TB3

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