Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Discussion on setting up QNAP NAS products.
Bob Zelin
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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by Bob Zelin » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:32 pm

I've seen some reviews complaining about overheating and subsequent slowdowns from the Sonnet Solo T2 10GbE adapter when transferring large amounts of data. Have you ever run into those problems, or are they pretty uncommon?


REPLY - yes. The Sonnet Solo 10G both T2 and T3 models do not have any cooling, other than the case. They become hot, and if you pile papers and books on top of them on your desk, it will absolutely overheat.
I much prefer the thunderbolt 3 QNAP QNA-T310G1T, which has a tiny fan inside it, but this cannot be used for a Thunderbolt 2 computer. Some people complain that the QNAP QNA makes "too much noise" - well, you either get a little fan noise, or you get a hot metal box.

Now, for $300 more, you can purchase the Sonnet Twin 10G which is for Thunderbolt 2. This is not $199 - it's $495. It has double the bandwidth of the Solo 10G T2 (800 MB/sec instead of 400 MB/sec) - but it's 500 bucks, and these days, most people won't spend the money. The Twin 10G is a very large box with very large heat sinks, and an external power supply. The Solo 10G T2 is buss powered by the Mac Pro 6,1 Trashcan.

Just like with QNAP products (and just like with you buying only 4 drives) - you spend the money, you get the performance. You cheap out, and you get less performance.
Bob Zelin
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engstrom
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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by engstrom » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:00 pm

Bob Zelin wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:32 pm
[SNIP]

Just like with QNAP products (and just like with you buying only 4 drives) - you spend the money, you get the performance. You cheap out, and you get less performance.
Bob Zelin
Ain't that the truth. But unlike buying only 4 drives (which can increased later without losing any of the initial investment) buying a single-port bus-powered 10G ethernet adapter that you have to replace later because it doesn't meet your needs isn't something I want to do. :)

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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by Bob Zelin » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:14 am

well, you have an old computer. When you get a new Mac with thunderbolt 3, you spend $185 and get the QNAP QNA-T310G1T, and you will get your 800 MB/sec.
But obviously, a new Mac will cost more than all of this put together !

Bob
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engstrom
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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by engstrom » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:07 am

Or maybe the new iMacs will have a 10GbE port. Or maybe I'll go for an iMac Pro. Not something I have to worry about right now though.

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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by bokr71 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:22 am

I have the 2013 Mac Pro Trashcan, currently running Big Sur, connected to my TVS-872XT, using the Mac Pro TB2 -> TB2/TB3 Adapter -> QNAP NAS, and it is rock stable, and speedy Gonzales fast.

The NAS is also connected to my network via gigabit Ethernet, but all operations between the Mac Pro and the NAS are via TB. I mount my shares on the desktop, and my transfer speeds typically are around 1'000MB/s, read and write. Sure it helps that I have 6x10TB in Raid6 and 2x512GB NVMe SSD for caching.

What I am saying is that Thunderbolt works in most cases, and NEVER would I consider it unstable, and it is faster than 10GbE Ethernet.
Apple: nMP 3.5GHz 6C/64GB/1TB/D700 - 2 x ATD - Echo Express 1TB Accelsior/2x500GB Sonnet Tempo - MBP 13" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MBA 13" 2c i7/8GB/250GB - MB 12" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MMI 6c i5/8GB/500GB - 2 x TC 3TB - iPhone Xs - iPad Mini - iPad Pro - 2 x HomePod - 42mm Apple Watch

Primary NAS: QNAP TVS-872XT 6x10TB + 2x512GB NVMe SSD. BackUp NAS: ReadyNAS Pioneer Pro 6x4TB

Network: 2 x HP2915 - LinkSys Velop AC6600

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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by Bob Zelin » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:15 pm

You sir, are a man with big b@#$s. Running beta unreleased Big Sir on a 2013 6,1. Your's are a lot bigger than mine !
Bob
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buggz
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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by buggz » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:49 am

Hi,
Just reporting my simple findings, I am a NAS newb still learning my around...
I have to report my new QNAP TVS-872XT-i5-16G-US via TB3 and windoze 10 is working great for the last few days, just got it.
Still in the testing phase, but I have 7 10TB WD white label shucked drives in RAID 6, and one as HOT SPARE.
No problems with TB3 connection as far as I know.

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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by DTE6019 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:22 am

bokr71 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:22 am
I have the 2013 Mac Pro Trashcan, currently running Big Sur, connected to my TVS-872XT, using the Mac Pro TB2 -> TB2/TB3 Adapter -> QNAP NAS, and it is rock stable, and speedy Gonzales fast.
Good afternoon. I'm stumped and could use some help. What bobkr71 stated above is exactly what I am trying to achieve (except with Catalina) but can't get my 2013 Mac Pro to recognize the TVX-872XT via Thunderbolt. Ethernet and wireless connections work fine. For the pros on here I am sure you know exactly what is wrong. I'm pretty new to all this and so far have been trying to figure this out though research. Despite having learned a lot over the last couple of weeks re networks, protocols, WAN/LAN addressing, firewalls and more, and reading several QNAP Forum threads on Thunderbolt connection issues I am clearly still missing something.

Since bokr71 has been able to make 2013 Mac Pro TB2->TB2/TB3->QNAP NAS work well I'd like to try and figure this out before I jump to the Sonnet Solo 10GbE/TB2 solution.

As background the 2013 Mac Pro has (and continues) to serve me well. The TB2 -> HighPoint RAID setup I have operated with several years has also met my speed needs when working with FCPX and Lightroom files.

Here is some info on hardware / software and what I have done so far.
1) Absent TB capability the initial NAS setup was done via Ethernet and everything went fine, and this is how my Mac Pro is currently connected.
2) Wireless setup with QWA-2600AC also went well. Other Macs around the house can connect to the NAS via our wireless LAN set-up. The NAS is only connected to our router wirelessly for now. That will change when some Ethernet rewiring around the house gets done.
3) Running Mac OS Catalina 10.15.6.
4) Mac Pro's Thunderbolt bus firmware is version 19.2 and link controller firmware is 0.13.0. Have no idea if this is the latest or could be part of the problem, but this is what is there.
5) QTS and Qfinder Pro both up to date.
6) I have tried to get the connection to work with both DHCP and static IP/subnet Thunderbolt Bridge settings on the Mac Pro and TVS-872XT. Can't get either to work. As stated, I am new to all this so a high probability I am screwing this up.
7) Using an Apple TB cord and TB2/TB3 adapter (model A1790 EMC3062). The cord is 2 meter length. Have tried a couple different Thunderbolt cords and get the same result.

Any thoughts on what I need to check or reconfigure, and to what would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Dave

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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by bokr71 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:01 am

Hi DTE6019 - I am sure it is something small and seemingly innocent that is missing. Let me take you through it.

Right now the cabling is as follows, right? Mac Pro is connected to your Router wirelessly, as is your Mac Pro.

1) connect the TB cable (with adapter) between the Mac Pro and the QNAP.
2) You need to setup a virtual switch specifically for the Thunderbolt connection on the QNAP, with a subnet different from the one that you use on the wireless connection. I have a subnet on my LAN which is 10.0.1.xx, and for the virtual switch for the Thunderbolt connections, I am using 10.1.10.xx. Adapter 2 (Ethernet) is connected to Virtual Switch 1, and Thunderbolt 2 is connected to the Thunderbolt Bridge. The Thunderbolt Bridge on the ANQP is assigned 10.0.10.10.
3) On your Mac Pro, you then need to define a Thunderbolt Bridge as well, with Manually assigned IP details. For me the IP address is 10.0.10.11, and the subnet mask is 255.255.255.0, and the Router is 10.0.10.1. NOW THEY SHOULD SEE EACHOTHER.

You may need to restart the QNAP and the Mac Pro, but now you can run QFinder Pro and get your shares mounted. Remember the QNAP needs to be sharing shares, but if you can use your Wireless setup today, that shouldn't be a problem.

Let me know how that goes, and do not give up. Thunderbolt is blazingly fast once it works, but there are plenty of folks in here with negative experiences, and they sway towards 10GbE - which I think is too expensive and not why I got the QNAP. Also, Thunderbolt is faster than 10GbE.
Apple: nMP 3.5GHz 6C/64GB/1TB/D700 - 2 x ATD - Echo Express 1TB Accelsior/2x500GB Sonnet Tempo - MBP 13" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MBA 13" 2c i7/8GB/250GB - MB 12" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MMI 6c i5/8GB/500GB - 2 x TC 3TB - iPhone Xs - iPad Mini - iPad Pro - 2 x HomePod - 42mm Apple Watch

Primary NAS: QNAP TVS-872XT 6x10TB + 2x512GB NVMe SSD. BackUp NAS: ReadyNAS Pioneer Pro 6x4TB

Network: 2 x HP2915 - LinkSys Velop AC6600

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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by DTE6019 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:09 am

Hi bokr71,

Thank you for the quick response and the detailed steps, as well as the words of encouragement. Like you I bought the TVS872XT for its' TB capabilities and would really like to take advantage of it.

Regarding cabling, yes, both the Mac Pro and the QNAP are connected to our router wirelessly. The Mac Pro is also currently connected to the QNAP via 1GbE Ethernet (Adapter 2 port). I can access the QNAP through either path.

Sharing shares hasn't been a problem - I have been able to create a few volumes, set up users, create shared folders and mount them on the Mac Pro.

l'll walk through the virtual configuration steps with fresh eyes in the morning, just to make sure I get this right, and let you know how it goes.

Thanks again. Stay tuned.

Dave
Last edited by DTE6019 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by bokr71 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:01 am

You definitely have to remove the Ethernet cable between the Mac Pro and the QNAP. You should only have a TB cable between the two. And, it is important that the Virtual Switch on the QNAP and the Thunderbolt Bridge share the same info.
Apple: nMP 3.5GHz 6C/64GB/1TB/D700 - 2 x ATD - Echo Express 1TB Accelsior/2x500GB Sonnet Tempo - MBP 13" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MBA 13" 2c i7/8GB/250GB - MB 12" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MMI 6c i5/8GB/500GB - 2 x TC 3TB - iPhone Xs - iPad Mini - iPad Pro - 2 x HomePod - 42mm Apple Watch

Primary NAS: QNAP TVS-872XT 6x10TB + 2x512GB NVMe SSD. BackUp NAS: ReadyNAS Pioneer Pro 6x4TB

Network: 2 x HP2915 - LinkSys Velop AC6600

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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by DTE6019 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:40 am

Hi bokr71,

After reviewing your steps and my QNAP, router and Mac Pro settings I had to step back and think this though a bit. I have a few follow-up questions as a result.

Let me start by sharing current device settings …

1. The router LAN gateway address and DHCP range were manually set so are not the typical out-of-the-box settings with regard to the last two number sequences. The LAN gateway is something similar to 192.168.43.178 for example. The DHCP range follows suit and is similar to 192.168.43.62 - 177.

2. The QNAP wireless IP address is within the DHCP range (obviously) and has a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0. Let’s call the IP address 192.168.43.71

3. During my past attempts to get the Thunderbolt connection working the QNAP’s “Thunderbolt Bridge (System Default)” virtual switch was set to static IP address 169.254.x.x and has subnet mask 255.255.0.0.

So now the questions …

1. Am I correct in thinking the virtual switch that needs to be created on the QNAP for the Thunderbolt connect is different from, and so is in addition to, the existing QNAP “Thunderbolt Bridge (System Default)” virtual switch?

2. If yes, should this new virtual switch (let’s call it “Virtual Switch A”) be created through “Advanced Mode” with a static IPv4 address and with Spanning Tree Protocol enabled, NAT service enabled and DHCP server disabled?

3. Since page 347 of the QTS 4.4.2 User Guide states a virtual switch can not use an IP address in a reserved range that does not support forwarding, I assume I should not use an IP address which is a derivative of the existing “Thunderbolt Bridge (System Default)” address, so in other words not something that plays off of 169.254.xxx.xxx?

4. If yes, and I try to apply your addressing numbering logic, would something like 192.268.430.12 work for “Virtual Switch A” as an example?

5. Should the “Virtual Switch A” subnet mask be set to 255.255.0.0 like the existing “Thunderbolt Bridge (System Default)” switch or should it be similar to what will be on the Mac Pro’s Thunderbolt Bridge once it is set up, so 255.255.255.0?

6. What did you do for the IPv6 address? Disabled, stateful, stateless or static?

7. Per the same page 347 virtual switch requirements, do I need to go back and changed the static IPv4 address for the “Thunderbolt Bridge (System Default)” switch to something like 192.168.430.10 (again, trying to apply your addressing scheme)?

And then this is where I get lost on virtual-to-physical links and communication requirements …
bokr71 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:01 am
Adapter 2 (Ethernet) is connected to Virtual Switch 1, and Thunderbolt 2 is connected to the Thunderbolt Bridge.
8. Is Adapter 1 (Ethernet) the only port linked to “Virtual Switch A” or should Thunderbolt 1 be linked as well? It is not clear to me how Virtual Switch A can be used for a Thunderbolt connection if one of the Thunderbolt ports is not linked to it. And is Thunderbolt 2 the only port linked to the QNAP’s Thunderbolt Bridge? Anything you can add to my understanding on this would be appreciated.

9. For the Mac Pro thinking I would set Thunderbolt Bridge static IP with something like 192.168.430.11, subnet mask 255.255.255.0 and router 192.168.43.178 (same as my example router gateway address).

So in summary, settings would be something like this …
QNAP new Virtual Switch A IPv4: 192.268.430.12 / subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
QNAP Thunderbolt Bridge IPv4 changed to: 192.168.430.10
Mac Pro Thunderbolt Bridge IPv4: 192.168.430.11 / subnet mask 255.255.255.0 / router 192.168.43.178.
bokr71 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:01 am
And, it is important that the Virtual Switch on the QNAP and the Thunderbolt Bridge share the same info.
I’m not sure my addressing scheme achieves this with QNAP Virtual Switch A being 192.268.xx.xx and Mac Pro TB Bridge being 192.168.xx.xx

Thanks again for all your help. It is much appreciated.

Dave

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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by bokr71 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:08 am

I'll be honest, I am not a network guru, but if I read you right, then you are a little off base.

1) The Thunderbolt Bridge I use on the QNAP is the System Default. I just set it up for static IP (IPv4), with a fixed IP address of 10.0.10.10, and the Default Gateway of 10.0.10.1
2) n/a
3) n/a
4) No, you cannot use any number higher than 255 in any IP sub number
5) Yes, set the Subnet Mask to 255.255.0.0 (/16)
6) IPv& is set for Auto-Configuration (Stateless)
7) n/a
8) Ethernet Adapter is connected to Virtual Switch 1 in my NAS, and Thunderbolts to the Thunderbolt Bridge (System Default)
9) Yes, on the Mac Pro, the Thunderbolt Bridge is setup for IPv4 "Manually", IP 10.0.10.11, Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0, and the Router for 10.0.10.1

That is what works for me.
Apple: nMP 3.5GHz 6C/64GB/1TB/D700 - 2 x ATD - Echo Express 1TB Accelsior/2x500GB Sonnet Tempo - MBP 13" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MBA 13" 2c i7/8GB/250GB - MB 12" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MMI 6c i5/8GB/500GB - 2 x TC 3TB - iPhone Xs - iPad Mini - iPad Pro - 2 x HomePod - 42mm Apple Watch

Primary NAS: QNAP TVS-872XT 6x10TB + 2x512GB NVMe SSD. BackUp NAS: ReadyNAS Pioneer Pro 6x4TB

Network: 2 x HP2915 - LinkSys Velop AC6600

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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by stackemup » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:54 pm

Newbie here. This is some really great information.
I am still in the process of setting up my QNAP (TVS-872XT). The only time I get a thunderbolt disconnect audible warning is when I put my Mac Pro (2013) to sleep (thunderbolt 3 directly connected to Mac Pro via Apple adapter). I'm wondering if the audible warning stops after a period of time and/or if I can turn that off through a setting. Not going to focus on that now. First want to get the data copied onto the drives.

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Re: Thunderbolt Connection Dropping - TVS 872XT

Post by bokr71 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:11 pm

That must be a setting - mine doesn’t do that. But then again, I use both TB connections; one directly to my Mac Pro, and the other to an external TB for my MacBook Pro, and that one is always on.
Apple: nMP 3.5GHz 6C/64GB/1TB/D700 - 2 x ATD - Echo Express 1TB Accelsior/2x500GB Sonnet Tempo - MBP 13" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MBA 13" 2c i7/8GB/250GB - MB 12" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MMI 6c i5/8GB/500GB - 2 x TC 3TB - iPhone Xs - iPad Mini - iPad Pro - 2 x HomePod - 42mm Apple Watch

Primary NAS: QNAP TVS-872XT 6x10TB + 2x512GB NVMe SSD. BackUp NAS: ReadyNAS Pioneer Pro 6x4TB

Network: 2 x HP2915 - LinkSys Velop AC6600

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