OS install and apps

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TomTom
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Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:44 am

Re: OS install and apps

Post by TomTom » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:22 am

dolbyman wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:54 am
there is no split usage on QNAP

any disk can only be one of those

-storage
-cache
-tier

no mix
oh, I was not aware of that
so, as the TS-453D only takes one QM2-2S-220A (and it does not work with storage expansion cards taking 4 SSDs), the remaining option would be to leave away RAID1 and use
1 SSD for OS+Apps
1 SSD for cache

That would work (although not advisible from the safe operation point of view)?
  • Device: TS-453A
  • Firmware: 4.4.1.1146
  • HDD: 4xWD-RED 3TB, configured as Raid 5 in a storage pool

dolbyman
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Posts: 19095
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Location: Vancouver BC , Canada

Re: OS install and apps

Post by dolbyman » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:28 am

depends on what you want to achieve, very possible you will not see any improvement at all

TomTom
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Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:44 am

Re: OS install and apps

Post by TomTom » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:16 am

dolbyman wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:28 am
depends on what you want to achieve, very possible you will not see any improvement at all
On my current TS-453A I've some annoying speed limiting factors:
  • copying of large files: copying speed reduces quite a bit (from 100MB/s to 30-40MB/s after short time) and then oscillates-->I'm expecting that a SSD read/write cache would avoid that
  • retrieval speed of media files (via SMB and also DLNA): over DLNA slow fetching of approx 10MB sized JPGs-->I hope that placing the DLNA source directory in a cached mode will help
  • slow response in docker images-->can't tell where this comes from, I'm hoping that using 8GB of memory and putting OS and apps on SSD will increase speed
So I'm primarily hoping that caching does it's job, but as I didn't have a SSD so far I just cannot tell.

Do you think my thoughts are correct?
  • Device: TS-453A
  • Firmware: 4.4.1.1146
  • HDD: 4xWD-RED 3TB, configured as Raid 5 in a storage pool

dolbyman
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Posts: 19095
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:11 am
Location: Vancouver BC , Canada

Re: OS install and apps

Post by dolbyman » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:38 am

TomTom wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:16 am
[*]copying of large files: copying speed reduces quite a bit (from 100MB/s to 30-40MB/s after short time) and then oscillates-->I'm expecting that a SSD read/write cache would avoid that
Sequential write/read should easily saturate 1GbE... if not, something else is amiss (defective drive? SMR?) caching would not help (when it' cant de-stage data to disks) also non redundant write caching (single drive) is very dangerous
TomTom wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:16 am
[*]retrieval speed of media files (via SMB and also DLNA): over DLNA slow fetching of approx 10MB sized JPGs-->I hope that placing the DLNA source directory in a cached mode will help
Unless you are looking at the same files over and over and over again, caching would do nothing as the pictures would be read from the disks first anyways
TomTom wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:16 am
[*]slow response in docker images-->can't tell where this comes from, I'm hoping that using 8GB of memory and putting OS and apps on SSD will increase speed
A dedicated container volume should help, Placing containers and VM's on SSD (with by far larger IOPS) would be a good idea.

TomTom
Starting out
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:44 am

Re: OS install and apps

Post by TomTom » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:53 am

dolbyman wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:38 am
TomTom wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:16 am
copying of large files: copying speed reduces quite a bit (from 100MB/s to 30-40MB/s after short time) and then oscillates-->I'm expecting that a SSD read/write cache would avoid that
Sequential write/read should easily saturate 1GbE... if not, something else is amiss (defective drive? SMR?) caching would not help (when it' cant de-stage data to disks) also non redundant write caching (single drive) is very dangerous
I understand, non redundant write cache is not a good idea.
Maybe the activated HDD encryption limits throughput (though the advertisement of the TS-453A said it wouldn't)
The disks are WD30EFRX, according to WD-Info those should be CMR, not SMR.
dolbyman wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:38 am
TomTom wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:16 am
retrieval speed of media files (via SMB and also DLNA): over DLNA slow fetching of approx 10MB sized JPGs-->I hope that placing the DLNA source directory in a cached mode will help
Unless you are looking at the same files over and over and over again, caching would do nothing as the pictures would be read from the disks first anyways
I'm aware of that, but as my media files are well below 1TB in size installing 1TB of SSD as a cache would work.
Last edited by TomTom on Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
  • Device: TS-453A
  • Firmware: 4.4.1.1146
  • HDD: 4xWD-RED 3TB, configured as Raid 5 in a storage pool

dolbyman
Guru
Posts: 19095
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:11 am
Location: Vancouver BC , Canada

Re: OS install and apps

Post by dolbyman » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:57 am

QNAP website says the NAS should handle write/write speed of around 400MB\s with or without encryption


I have a feeling something else is bogging your NAS down also read this thread on what can go wrong with cache
viewtopic.php?t=124852

TomTom
Starting out
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:44 am

Re: OS install and apps

Post by TomTom » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:18 am

dolbyman wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:57 am
QNAP website says the NAS should handle write/write speed of around 400MB\s with or without encryption


I have a feeling something else is bogging your NAS down also read this thread on what can go wrong with cache
viewtopic.php?t=124852
The QNAP propaganda said read/write would be roughly the same with encryption on, thats why I activated it without giving it much of a test, maybe a bad idea. But when moving to the TS-453D I eventually do have a new chance because I wonder if I should backup data, wipe the disks and start from scratch.

Thanks for the link regarding SSD-cache. The (current) last comment "Super depressing thread to say the least" really gives me a thought if I should invest into SSD-caching at this time (or ever).
  • Device: TS-453A
  • Firmware: 4.4.1.1146
  • HDD: 4xWD-RED 3TB, configured as Raid 5 in a storage pool

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