TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

[hopeandnotexpect]

Everyone,

I've been investigating the TS-x53D (TS-253D, TS-453D, TS-653D) as well to see what RAM can be installed. I spent a lot of time reading a lot of the different forum posts/articles, and I've noticed a lot of contradictions amongst users. After spending more time, I decided to look at the actual raw specs at Intel to check for why there are discrepancies, as well as investigate the Crucial/Kingston part code decoding. This guide should help everyone using both Crucial/Kingston and other memory brands.

Edit Update 3/10 12AM PDT: Included TS-451D2 and TS-251D, as they are also Gemini Lake.
Edit Update 3/10 8:20AM PDT: Included details about when 2Rx8 is required.
Edit Update 3/19 6:23PM PDT: Confirmed/verified that both Crucial CT2K4G4SFS824A and CT2K8G4SFS824A work.
Edit Update 3/20 11:39AM PDT: Included details about Kingston models that are expected to work.

[Guide]
These are critical pointers for purchasing memory for the TS-x53D QNAP NAS products.

1. When searching for memory, remember that these are laptop-sized modules. I.e. DDR4 SODIMMs 260-pin.
2. Find unbuffered non-ECC memory: Unbuffered Non-ECC SODIMM. This motherboard does not support otherwise.
3. The largest size memory module that is supported is 16GB, in 2 channels, for a total of 32GB.
   1. Even though the Gemini Lake spec specifies a maximum of 8GB memory, the actual max is 32GB. This is likely because testing at the time for DDR4 SODIMMs did not include such high-density DDR4 die.
   2. The calculation goes like this: Max Package Size x Packages Per Rank x Ranks per Channel x Channels = 2GB x 4 x 2 x 2 = 32GB
4. Use memory of rank-bank sizing: 1Rx8 or 2Rx8. For 16GB modules, only 2Rx8 is supported (1Rx8 is not).
   1. Do NOT use memory modules of 1Rx16 or 2Rx16.
      1. Due to the Gemini Lake limitations of Raw Card A/B support using only BG0 (not BG1), Bank-Per-Rank counts of 16 cannot not be used.
      2. This is why people notice that dual-ranked modules tend to be more compatible. 2Rx16 is very rare on the market, but they DO exist. On the other hand, 1Rx16 is common for smaller memory modules, and people will use this incorrectly.
   2. For 16GB modules (or 2x16GB modules), only 2Rx8 is supported. This is due to the limitations of 17-bit addressing.
5. Use 2400 Mhz memory.
   1. Faster memory modules are okay, but anything over 2400 Mhz is a waste of money. The chipset supports EXACTLY 2400Mhz, neither faster nor slower.
   2. Use standard memory modules that don't require over-clocking. The key hint is to look for memory that operates 2400Mhz at 1.2V.
6. Crucial memory-specific pointers
   1. Crucial models to avoid (Note: This is not an exhaustive list but helps to make it clear what types to steer clear of)
      1. Do NOT use any with "SRFA" in the model numbering. Even though they are cheaper, Crucial decides what to send based on their supply. And, you will find out the hard way when you get an x16.
      2. SRFA Examples: Avoid CT16G4SFRA32A, CT8G4SFRA266, CT2K8G4SFRA266, CT8G4SFRA32A, CT16G4SFRA266, and CT2K16G4SFRA266.
      3. 1Rx16 Examples: Avoid CT4G4SFS6266, CT2K4G4SFS6266, CT4G4SFS624A, CT2K4G4SFS624A
      4. 16GB Examples: Avoid 1Rx8 for 16GB. Temporarily none (at the time of this writing 3/10/2022, none could be found).
      5. 32GB Examples: Avoid CT32G4SFD8266, CT2K32G4SFD8266
   2. Crucial models to use
      1. Do use dual-channel memory that is bought together.
      2. Look for CT2K as the prefix in the model numbering. The "2K" implies a 2-kit set.
      3. Use 2400 Mhz to save on cost. 2666 Mhz are backwards compatible to 2400 Mhz, but the extra speed isn't usable.
      4. Examples: 2x16GB (CT2K16G4SFD824A), 2x8GB (CT2K8G4SFD824A), 2x8GB (CT2K8G4SFS824A - Personally Verified), 2x4GB (CT2K8G4SFS824A - Personally Verified)
      5. Note: I have only personally tested some of the examples, as indicated by "personally verified" above.
7. Kingston memory-specific pointers
   1. Kingston models to avoid (Note: This is not an exhaustive list but helps to make it clear what types to steer clear of)
      1. 1Rx16 Examples: Avoid KVR26S19S6/4, KVR26S19S6/8
      2. 16GB Examples: Avoid KVR26S19S8/16
      3. 32GB Examples: Avoid KVR26S19D8/32
   2. Kingston models to use
      1. Do use dual-channel memory that is bought together, or buy 2x single piece memory that are exactly the same model numbers.
      2. Technically, use 2400 Mhz to save on cost. 2666 Mhz are backwards compatible to 2400 Mhz, but the extra speed isn't usable. However, Kingston currently no longer offers the 2400Mhz models. So, 2666Mhz are required.
      3. Examples: 2x16GB (2x KVR26S19D8/16), 2x8GB (2x KVR26S19S8/8)
      4. Note: I have not personally tested any of the Kingston models above yet. Based on the specs, I do expect these to work. I will try to find some time to purchase some of these and test them out, as I have more memory upgrades to do on my other TS-653D's.

[Background]
This is the technical explanation, for those interested on the limitations of the chipset. This is the key to later determining exactly what IS and ISN'T supported. This can also help those of you that are interested in upgrading memory in other models, to understand how to determine the memory limitations that the design supports.

1. The Celeron J4125/J4025/J4005 CPU is based on the Gemini Lake processors, and there is a follow-up set of Celeron N-series set of CPUs (N5030 for example) that use this same core architecture.
2. Gemini Lake processors have limitations that are causing specific SODIMMs to be rejected. Below, I list the exact reference material to help explain the details.
   1. The total number of address lines is limited to 17. This limits the actual DRAM die size to <= 2Gb per die. Refer to MEM_CH0/CH1_MA[16:0], in Memory Address of Section 2.3.1 Table 2-3.
      MEM_CH0.png
   2. Because DDR4 specification requires DQ width of 64-bits for a memory line and the max die size is 2Gb, this means that only SDP/DDP are supported. The max package size is 2GB, and the max number of packages per rank is 4 (at the max 2GB package). Furthermore, looking at all the rows in the table helps to show that the max is 8GB per rank. Refer to Section 3.2 Table 3-4.
      SDP_DDP.png
   3. Only Raw Card A and Raw Card B is supported for UDIMM/SODIMMs. Refer to DDR4, in Raw Card Support of Section 3.2 Table 3-2.
      RawCard.png
   4. The memory controller operates at exactly DDR4 2400Mhz. There is no overclocking capability. Refer to System Memory Timing Support, in DDR4 of Section 3.2 Table 3-6.
      RawCard.png
   5. Intel Gemini Lake Spec: https://cdrdv2.intel.com/v1/dl/getConte ... rsion=true
3. JEDEC specifications that are causing specific SODIMMs to be rejected. Below, I list the exact reference material to help explain the details.
   1. Bank Group BG1 is not supported on Raw Cards A and B, when using DDR4. Refer to Annex A and Annex B of JEDEC's JESD21-C. Note: This info is also available directly from the Intel spec.
   2. JEDEC JESD21-C's Annex Documents: https://www.jedec.org/document_search?s ... &sort=desc
4. Crucial memory parts and numbering limitations, for SODIMMs.
   1. All DDR4 memory comes in the form of ARxB. A is the Rank Count in (1,2). B is the Bank-Per-Rank count in (4,8,16).
   2. Memory from Crucial have a special numbering that exhibit a supply-based selection that does not necessarily adhere to a specific Rank and Bank-Per-Rank count. These models have "SRFA" in the model numbering.
   3. Modules from Crucial have specific Rank and Bank-Per-Rank count that can be seen for each product. A specific Rank and Bank-Per-Rank can be chosen.
   4. Crucial SODIMM memory product information: https://www.crucial.com/catalog/memory/ddr4-laptop

Note 1: If you still have issues after following the guidance, please let me know.
Note 2: I have personally purchased Crucial CT2K8G4SFS824A and CT2K8G4SFS824A for my NAS systems TS-653D and can confirm that both work. Doing more long-term testing at the moment...
Note 3: I hope to purchase Kingston KVR26S19S8/8 and KVR26S19D8/16 to confirm that they work. I have high confidence that they should, given their intended specs. However, at the time of this writing 3/20/2022, Kingston is more expensive than Crucial, so it just doesn't make sense for me to purchase those.
Note 4: QNAP doesn't provide technical support for NAS setups that have upgraded memory unless they are purchased at QNAP's official site. It is recommended to keep the original RAM to put back in for support reasons.

[OneCD]

* made topic sticky *

Good work!

[larienz]

@hopeandnotexpect
I registered specifically to thank you! The information provided helped me a lot, thank you for your effort and for sharing this useful information! I'm buying one of the suggested RAM, I'll keep you updated!

Thanks again!

[hopeandnotexpect]

@larienz, haha... Thanks Larienz. Looking forward to your update

[hopeandnotexpect]

Original Post Updates:

• Edit Update 3/19 6:23PM PDT: Confirmed/verified that both Crucial CT2K4G4SFS824A and CT2K8G4SFS824A work.
• Edit Update 3/20 11:39AM PDT: Included details about Kingston models that are expected to work.

[larienz]

You're great hopeandnotexpect!
32GB upgrade to TS-653D fully working, attached screenshot!

Memory kit I installed: Crucial CT2K16G4SFD824A Pin Memory Kit 32 GB, 16GB x 2, DDR4 2400 MT/s, DR x 8 SODIMM 260

I hope this can be useful to the community!

Thanks again for your great research job, master hopeandnotexpect!!

[t0mmili]

You're great hopeandnotexpect!
32GB upgrade to TS-653D fully working, attached screenshot!

Memory kit I installed: Crucial CT2K16G4SFD824A Pin Memory Kit 32 GB, 16GB x 2, DDR4 2400 MT/s, DR x 8 SODIMM 260

I hope this can be useful to the community!

Thanks again for your great research job, master hopeandnotexpect!!

Hey, did you put some extra load on your ssytem, e.g. running docker containers? How long is your system up since the upgrade?

[hopeandnotexpect]

@t0mmili, in case you're interested in other results, I did put some load on the system in my cases of the 2x4GB and 2x8GB. I ran antivirus, snapshot, heavy multi-TB activity via Samba, QSync, and HBS3 doing a scheduled backup at the same time. RAM usage shot up considerably, though I didn't really get to see it go past 8GB consistently (only sporadic moments). It was stable. Thus far, running almost 2 weeks, no issues. I have most of that activity set on a schedule in the middle of the night to keep testing it every day. Seems pretty good thus far.

[hopeandnotexpect]

@larienz, woohoo~~~ Glad it worked for you.

[t0mmili]

@t0mmili, in case you're interested in other results, I did put some load on the system in my cases of the 2x4GB and 2x8GB. I ran antivirus, snapshot, heavy multi-TB activity via Samba, QSync, and HBS3 doing a scheduled backup at the same time. RAM usage shot up considerably, though I didn't really get to see it go past 8GB consistently (only sporadic moments). It was stable. Thus far, running almost 2 weeks, no issues. I have most of that activity set on a schedule in the middle of the night to keep testing it every day. Seems pretty good thus far.

@hopeandnotexpect Glad to hear it works for you and thanks for all your hard work Why I'm asking is because I have issues with 32GB & TS-453D. The system becomes unresponsive after undefined amount of time. Sometimes it's 2h, sometimes 24. By unresponsive I mean no web panel, no ssh, no samba, nothing. Connecting through HDMI results in black screen. The only option left is hard reset.
The exact RAM model is Crucial CT2K16G4SFD8266. I'm almost sure it gives up on heavy load, but I'm not 100% sure. I tried to find root cause for couple of months, but still no answer, not even a clue. Recently I was gathering some metrics with Elastic, but still... nothing...
What's worth mentioning is that it begun with QTS 5. And of course both modules are memtested - 100% healthy. Currently I use only one module at a time (16GB). Works like a charm.
I think I'll give up, sell them and try 32GB in 2400MHz option. Unless you have some ideas. Are there any useful logs in the system that are able to tell me something?

[hopeandnotexpect]

@t0mmili, Hmmm... Interesting... I'll purchase a pair and test it out. I was planning to at some point anyways. Though, it might take me another week or 2, as I am busy with some activities at home. Let me get back to you on that, but the issues definitely are concerning. Btw, how much RAM do you see get used? Perhaps some details on the usage can give me an idea. What type of things are you doing?

[larienz]

You're great hopeandnotexpect!
32GB upgrade to TS-653D fully working, attached screenshot!

Memory kit I installed: Crucial CT2K16G4SFD824A Pin Memory Kit 32 GB, 16GB x 2, DDR4 2400 MT/s, DR x 8 SODIMM 260

I hope this can be useful to the community!

Thanks again for your great research job, master hopeandnotexpect!!

Hey, did you put some extra load on your ssytem, e.g. running docker containers? How long is your system up since the upgrade?

@t0mmili I configured and run a couple of VM (Windows and Linux), no issues until now; don't expect top performance by virtualization system, Celeron processor doesn't do myracles even if it's a quad core. I'm using the NAS mainly for storage and retrogaming, the 32GB upgrade reduced boot time by more than a minute (about 3 minutes and 30 seconds total boot time with 32GB vs 5 minutes with 4G Ram) and improve overall responsiveness of GUI. A good deal

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

excellent guide but for this

Crucial models to use
Do use dual-channel memory that is bought together.

i did not manage to buy a dual channel kit (the sticks of ram that came in the same packet together), instead they were 2 individual ram sticks (although they are the exact same). But it still worked.

ideally yes you are right, dual channel sticks that came together is preferable, but it's possible single sticks may still work fine (though i'm not sure the percentage odds of that likelihood, cept it has worked for me so far)

[hopeandnotexpect]

@Moogle, you are correct. I usually recommend buying them together as a safety precaution to reduce accidental purchase differences. As long as they are exactly the same, it should be good

[t0mmili]

@t0mmili, Hmmm... Interesting... I'll purchase a pair and test it out. I was planning to at some point anyways. Though, it might take me another week or 2, as I am busy with some activities at home. Let me get back to you on that, but the issues definitely are concerning. Btw, how much RAM do you see get used? Perhaps some details on the usage can give me an idea. What type of things are you doing?

@hopeandnotexpect, thank you for your interest in my case. It would really mean a lot if you could look at it and maybe suggest something. I attach a few print screens pull out of Grafana. As you look at it, you'll notice they are unrelated and actually CPU is doing more excersice than RAM. But that's how it is...

Total memory displayed by Grafana sometimes is odd, like more than 32GB, so skip that. Java and node processes, which are most noticable, come from Grafana and Elastic stack, which I run in docker (with limits to cpu and memory applied):

Code: Select all

NAME              CPU %     MEM USAGE / LIMIT   MEM %
grafana-1         0.05%     30.42MiB / 1GiB     2.97%
logstash-1        6.06%     874.4MiB / 2GiB     42.69%
elasticsearch-1   2.60%     3.134GiB / 4GiB     78.34%
kibana-1          0.83%     521MiB / 1GiB       50.88%
metricbeat-1      0.47%     97.28MiB / 256MiB   38.00%

There's no other "unusual" activity on my NAS, no VMs, etc.

What's also worth mentioning is that I run through this issue with QNAP support last year. They went in, checked some stuff, than advised to:

• Disable all apps. Which I did, but nothing changed.

• Run MemTest. Which I did with positive result - 100% error free.

In the end they stated that this kind of memory is not supported, goodbye

It's tempting to say that docker is main suspect here, but it all started long before, with QTS 5. Most of the time I run only one 16GB module, with the same docker load and it is doing just fine.

Anyway, hope you can help. I'll share any details needed and perform any test that comes to your mind. Thanks!