myQNAPCloud IP address

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pilgrim_cc1
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myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by pilgrim_cc1 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:29 am

Hi, a very happy QNAP (TS-469L v4.0.2) user for the most part, but occasionally the lack manual options is frustrating. I would like to provide my family access using cloud service appreciate this is essentially DDNS access but the UI and the address it provides are easy for them to access and for me too control. However the setup is insistent on choosing the IP address on my behalf. I don't want it to do this, since I have eight fixed IP addresses from my ISP and my NAS is on one of those, which is not the one it automatically chooses for me, I want to point the mycloud access at the correct IP for my NAS, appreciate it is an unusual request, any ideas how I might do this?

Thanks in advance.

CC

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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by pwilson » Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:04 pm

pilgrim_cc1 wrote:Hi, a very happy QNAP (TS-469L v4.0.2) user for the most part, but occasionally the lack manual options is frustrating. I would like to provide my family access using cloud service appreciate this is essentially DDNS access but the UI and the address it provides are easy for them to access and for me too control. However the setup is insistent on choosing the IP address on my behalf. I don't want it to do this, since I have eight fixed IP addresses from my ISP and my NAS is on one of those, which is not the one it automatically chooses for me, I want to point the mycloud access at the correct IP for my NAS, appreciate it is an unusual request, any ideas how I might do this?

Thanks in advance.

CC


If your NAS is directly connected to the Internet on a Static IP, and if the Ethernet port on your NAS connected to that Static IP address is your "default gateway device", then the MyQNAPCloud service will work correctly.

I'd love to help you, but you've provided insufficient information about your configuration. It sounds like your Router or Routers for these 8 static IP addresses is/are misconfigured, but with no information about your network hardware, or cabling provided it is impossible to provide any useful advice for you.

Patrick M. Wilson
Victoria, BC Canada
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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by pilgrim_cc1 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:38 pm

Hi Patrick,
thank you for your prompt response, really just wanted to know how I can point the cloud service directly at the IP of my choice rather than it choosing, hence the lack of IP info. Currently using MultiNAT on my router so all traffic with the destination of external IP address 5 is routed directly to my NAS, Works fine if I access directly via the IP address (as it the case with all the other devices on IP 1-4), however the QNAP cloud service is pointing directly to my router address, not the address I've assigned to the NAS so the multiNAT ignores the requests as they are not targeted to the NAS.

Thanks in advance,

CC.

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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by pwilson » Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:57 pm

pilgrim_cc1 wrote:Hi Patrick,
thank you for your prompt response, really just wanted to know how I can point the cloud service directly at the IP of my choice rather than it choosing, hence the lack of IP info. Currently using MultiNAT on my router so all traffic with the destination of external IP address 5 is routed directly to my NAS, Works fine if I access directly via the IP address (as it the case with all the other devices on IP 1-4), however the QNAP cloud service is pointing directly to my router address, not the address I've assigned to the NAS so the multiNAT ignores the requests as they are not targeted to the NAS.

Thanks in advance,

CC.


As all your outbound traffic exits the Router, it shouldn't surprise you that this is the address that gets registered in MyCloudNAS Service. Talk to your ISP about configuring your Router properly. (Hint: If you have 8 static IP addresses, your Router should not be using any form of NAT at all). :roll:

With an 8 IP network, your subnet should be set to: 255.255.255.248 (29 bits).

Your issue is caused by a mis-configured Router. Who owns the Router? You or your ISP?
BTW with 8 IP's, you will have 6 usable IP addresses rather than 8.

Please provide an obsured listing of your Static IP's (ie 36.XXX.YYY.0 to 36.XXX.YYY.7).
Please do NOT provide the entire IP addresses, I am only interested in the 1st and 4th octets of the addresses.

Patrick M. Wilson
Victoria, BC Canada
QNAP TS-470 Pro w/ 4 * Western Digital WD30EFRX WD Reds (RAID5) - - Single 8.1TB Storage Pool FW: QTS 4.2.0 Build 20151023 - Kali Linux v1.06 (64bit)
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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by pilgrim_cc1 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:56 pm

Hi Patrick,
sigh, this is why I didn't go into the specifics, whilst your effort in reply is well intentioned and appreciated, you seem to have turned what is simple question (how I might manually configure my MyCloud IP address manually) into a complicated and unnecessary critique of in your opinion an apparently ill configured network! Quite apart from the fact you are incorrect in your assumption(s) as to the network setup, it does not get me any closer to my goal. I don't need to know how to configure my network (I know how to do that and it's fine) I need to know if I can make a manual setting change on the NAS that is trying to treat me as the dummy you also appear to think I am and in both cases being too smart for your own good :lol:

However as proof of the pudding is all about consumption the following describes my network set-up :- As mentioned previously I have 8 external IP address (of which 5 are usable to me) and I use a one to one relationship between external and internal addresses using MultiNAT. This is common practice in dealing with a single router where the desire is one to one and multiple external IP addresses. This allows me to have different devices on different on individual (external) IP addresses, manage open ports for each and access them on a per device basis (i.e. I know the exact IP addresses of my NAS, my server, my cameras etc) For the record this also happens to the setup recommended by my ISP and the router manufacturer for dealing with the multiple IP addresses provided (well this or Routed IP also supported by the router).

In terms of LAN to WAN layout, my network looks something like this (a little more complex as the devices are segregated internally however for the purposes of this post, it will suffice) and in Dot decimal as requested.

Of the eight IP addresses 3 are fixed by my ISP and the remainder are mapped 1-1 something akin to the example below (using MultiNat)

1, 88.x.x.130 -------------- --- Reserved by ISP as : Network Address.
2. 88.x.x.131 192.168.1.10 1-1 Web Server.
3. 88.x.x.132 192.168.1.20 1-1 NAS.
4. 88.x.x.133 192.168.1.30 1-1 Networked Camera.
5. 88.x.x.134 192.168.1.40 1-1 Not Used.
6. 88.x.x.135 192.168.1.50 1-1 Not Used.
7. 88.x.x.136 ----------------- --- Reserved by ISP as : Router address.
8. 88.x.x.137 ---------------- --- Reserved by ISP as : Broadcast address.

So if I want to access the NAS I simply use 88.x.x.132:80/8080 etc and away we go, works perfectly web server on the NAS will However the MyCloud wizard is insistent on setting up the NAS 88.x.x.136 (which is my router address) and I don't want it to do that. I understand why it does so but would like to be able to specify this myself.

This setup is better than routed IP (on this router at least) since traffic still routes through the firewall and anybody probing sees replies from the router not the device.

http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/kb_vigor_multinat.html

Regards

CC

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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by pwilson » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:45 am

pilgrim_cc1 wrote:Hi Patrick,
sigh, this is why I didn't go into the specifics, whilst your effort in reply is well intentioned and appreciated, you seem to have turned what is simple question (how I might manually configure my MyCloud IP address manually) into a complicated and unnecessary critique of in your opinion an apparently ill configured network! Quite apart from the fact you are incorrect in your assumption(s) as to the network setup, it does not get me any closer to my goal. I don't need to know how to configure my network (I know how to do that and it's fine) I need to know if I can make a manual setting change on the NAS that is trying to treat me as the dummy you also appear to think I am and in both cases being too smart for your own good :lol:

However as proof of the pudding is all about consumption the following describes my network set-up :- As mentioned previously I have 8 external IP address (of which 5 are usable to me) and I use a one to one relationship between external and internal addresses using MultiNAT. This is common practice in dealing with a single router where the desire is one to one and multiple external IP addresses. This allows me to have different devices on different on individual (external) IP addresses, manage open ports for each and access them on a per device basis (i.e. I know the exact IP addresses of my NAS, my server, my cameras etc) For the record this also happens to the setup recommended by my ISP and the router manufacturer for dealing with the multiple IP addresses provided (well this or Routed IP also supported by the router).

In terms of LAN to WAN layout, my network looks something like this (a little more complex as the devices are segregated internally however for the purposes of this post, it will suffice) and in Dot decimal as requested.

Of the eight IP addresses 3 are fixed by my ISP and the remainder are mapped 1-1 something akin to the example below (using MultiNat)

1, 88.x.x.130 -------------- --- Reserved by ISP as : Network Address.
2. 88.x.x.131 192.168.1.10 1-1 Web Server.
3. 88.x.x.132 192.168.1.20 1-1 NAS.
4. 88.x.x.133 192.168.1.30 1-1 Networked Camera.
5. 88.x.x.134 192.168.1.40 1-1 Not Used.
6. 88.x.x.135 192.168.1.50 1-1 Not Used.
7. 88.x.x.136 ----------------- --- Reserved by ISP as : Router address.
8. 88.x.x.137 ---------------- --- Reserved by ISP as : Broadcast address.

So if I want to access the NAS I simply use 88.x.x.132:80/8080 etc and away we go, works perfectly web server on the NAS will However the MyCloud wizard is insistent on setting up the NAS 88.x.x.136 (which is my router address) and I don't want it to do that. I understand why it does so but would like to be able to specify this myself.

This setup is better than routed IP (on this router at least) since traffic still routes through the firewall and anybody probing sees replies from the router not the device.

http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/kb_vigor_multinat.html

Regards

CC


What you want is outside the design of the MyQNAPCloud Service, which is working exactly as designed. I would do it as follows:

Image

Web Server exposed to the Internet @ 88.x.x.131/29; also accessible at 192.168.1.10/24 locally.
QNAP NAS exposed to the Internet @ 88.x.x.132/29; also accessible at 192.168.1.20/24 locally.
Network Camera accessible at 88.x.x.136:ZZZZ (access restricted by Router), accessible at 192.168.1.30/24 locally.
All PC's NAT'd/Firewalled behind the Router.

This setup would require WebServer and NAS to have 2 Ethernet ports each, with "default" route sent to Internet. Private network access via 192.168.1.0/24 addresses.

This would connect your Web Server and NAS directly to the Internet on the Static IP's that you have paid for, while still permitting access from your private network as well. NAS already has 2 Ethernet ports, so only expense would be a second Ethernet port for the Webserver (if not already equipped). You would still have 3 available static IP's available for future expansion.

You would also need a second router. I would use your High-End Draytek Router for the Private Network. The one used for 8 Static IP's could be a cheap one, as it wouldn't require NAT capabilities at all. It simply needs to break out the inbound connection to the 8 static IP addresses.

With the NAS directly connected to it's static 88.x.x.132/29 address, rather than NAT'd, it would work as expected with MyQNAPCloud Service.

(I made a typo in that graphic. Broadcast Address should claim broadcast address for 88.x.x.130/29, rather than 88.x.x.30 as listed)

This suggested configuration would be a bit of a pain to setup, but it would expose the Web Server and NAS to the Internet as desired, while protecting everything else behind the NAT/Firewall Router, with transparent access to both from both inside and outside your Private Network.

Patrick M. Wilson
Victoria, BC Canada
QNAP TS-470 Pro w/ 4 * Western Digital WD30EFRX WD Reds (RAID5) - - Single 8.1TB Storage Pool FW: QTS 4.2.0 Build 20151023 - Kali Linux v1.06 (64bit)
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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by schumaku » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:19 am

There is nothing to guess or to select. Everything is fully under your control: The IP address registered by myQNAPcloud.com is the IP address used for normal traffic from the LAN to the Internet - as per your multi-NAT configuration.

The same applies to any DDNS provider. I doubt RFC 2136 permits dynamic updates on behalf of other IP addresses.

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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by pilgrim_cc1 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:04 pm

Hi, not really and that was the original question the myCloud service chooses the IP it uses, which in my scenario it that of my router, not the address I have assigned.

if I could change this manually I would be fine but I can see no way to do this. If the wizard offered the choice or I configure it via the OS or at the MyCloud service then it would all work, however I cannot.

Regards
CC

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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by johnripper » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:04 pm

If you really have static IPs a DynDNS Server isn't just the right thing for you. The service is initially intended for users which constantly changing IPs.

Why don't you register a domain (should be 10-20 USD/y) at your registar of choise and enter the IP addresses (hard coded) there?

Time investment of this discussion was already higher than the one year domain rental :roll:

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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by pilgrim_cc1 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:15 pm

pwilson wrote:
pilgrim_cc1 wrote:Hi Patrick,
sigh, this is why I didn't go into the specifics, whilst your effort in reply is well intentioned and appreciated, you seem to have turned what is simple question (how I might manually configure my MyCloud IP address manually) into a complicated and unnecessary critique of in your opinion an apparently ill configured network! Quite apart from the fact you are incorrect in your assumption(s) as to the network setup, it does not get me any closer to my goal. I don't need to know how to configure my network (I know how to do that and it's fine) I need to know if I can make a manual setting change on the NAS that is trying to treat me as the dummy you also appear to think I am and in both cases being too smart for your own good :lol:

However as proof of the pudding is all about consumption the following describes my network set-up :- As mentioned previously I have 8 external IP address (of which 5 are usable to me) and I use a one to one relationship between external and internal addresses using MultiNAT. This is common practice in dealing with a single router where the desire is one to one and multiple external IP addresses. This allows me to have different devices on different on individual (external) IP addresses, manage open ports for each and access them on a per device basis (i.e. I know the exact IP addresses of my NAS, my server, my cameras etc) For the record this also happens to the setup recommended by my ISP and the router manufacturer for dealing with the multiple IP addresses provided (well this or Routed IP also supported by the router).

In terms of LAN to WAN layout, my network looks something like this (a little more complex as the devices are segregated internally however for the purposes of this post, it will suffice) and in Dot decimal as requested.

Of the eight IP addresses 3 are fixed by my ISP and the remainder are mapped 1-1 something akin to the example below (using MultiNat)

1, 88.x.x.130 -------------- --- Reserved by ISP as : Network Address.
2. 88.x.x.131 192.168.1.10 1-1 Web Server.
3. 88.x.x.132 192.168.1.20 1-1 NAS.
4. 88.x.x.133 192.168.1.30 1-1 Networked Camera.
5. 88.x.x.134 192.168.1.40 1-1 Not Used.
6. 88.x.x.135 192.168.1.50 1-1 Not Used.
7. 88.x.x.136 ----------------- --- Reserved by ISP as : Router address.
8. 88.x.x.137 ---------------- --- Reserved by ISP as : Broadcast address.

So if I want to access the NAS I simply use 88.x.x.132:80/8080 etc and away we go, works perfectly web server on the NAS will However the MyCloud wizard is insistent on setting up the NAS 88.x.x.136 (which is my router address) and I don't want it to do that. I understand why it does so but would like to be able to specify this myself.

This setup is better than routed IP (on this router at least) since traffic still routes through the firewall and anybody probing sees replies from the router not the device.

http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/kb_vigor_multinat.html

Regards

CC


What you want is outside the design of the MyQNAPCloud Service, which is working exactly as designed. I would do it as follows:

Image

Web Server exposed to the Internet @ 88.x.x.131/29; also accessible at 192.168.1.10/24 locally.
QNAP NAS exposed to the Internet @ 88.x.x.132/29; also accessible at 192.168.1.20/24 locally.
Network Camera accessible at 88.x.x.136:ZZZZ (access restricted by Router), accessible at 192.168.1.30/24 locally.
All PC's NAT'd/Firewalled behind the Router.

This setup would require WebServer and NAS to have 2 Ethernet ports each, with "default" route sent to Internet. Private network access via 192.168.1.0/24 addresses.

This would connect your Web Server and NAS directly to the Internet on the Static IP's that you have paid for, while still permitting access from your private network as well. NAS already has 2 Ethernet ports, so only expense would be a second Ethernet port for the Webserver (if not already equipped). You would still have 3 available static IP's available for future expansion.

You would also need a second router. I would use your High-End Draytek Router for the Private Network. The one used for 8 Static IP's could be a cheap one, as it wouldn't require NAT capabilities at all. It simply needs to break out the inbound connection to the 8 static IP addresses.

With the NAS directly connected to it's static 88.x.x.132/29 address, rather than NAT'd, it would work as expected with MyQNAPCloud Service.

(I made a typo in that graphic. Broadcast Address should claim broadcast address for 88.x.x.130/29, rather than 88.x.x.30 as listed)

This suggested configuration would be a bit of a pain to setup, but it would expose the Web Server and NAS to the Internet as desired, while protecting everything else behind the NAT/Firewall Router, with transparent access to both from both inside and outside your Private Network.



Hi Patrick, a huge effort thank you, however a lot of changes on my side to make the MyCloud work! I think I'll have to stick to the web interface, it's a shame really, since it comes down to one little IP address in the NAS. if was able to set the IP address used by the MyCloud service manually then I would be able to point it at my external IP address, then everything would simply work ;-( Any how I think it answers me question, which is in my current setup the MyCould service is not usable.

Thanks for your time.

Regards

CC

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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by pilgrim_cc1 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:46 pm

johnripper wrote:If you really have static IPs a DynDNS Server isn't just the right thing for you. The service is initially intended for users which constantly changing IPs.

Why don't you register a domain (should be 10-20 USD/y) at your registar of choise and enter the IP addresses (hard coded) there?

Time investment of this discussion was already higher than the one year domain rental :roll:


Indeed, thought it would be a fairly simple question :DD However the MyCloud service does offer an easier interface for the family logging in than the web interface and I suspect will continue to be enhanced as time passes, it would be nice to be able to use it going forward.

Regards

CC

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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by pwilson » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:01 pm

pilgrim_cc1 wrote:Hi Patrick, a huge effort thank you, however a lot of changes on my side to make the MyCloud work! I think I'll have to stick to the web interface, it's a shame really, since it comes down to one little IP address in the NAS. if was able to set the IP address used by the MyCloud service manually then I would be able to point it at my external IP address, then everything would simply work ;-( Any how I think it answers me question, which is in my current setup the MyCould service is not usable.


Yes doing it properly does involve some work. Your NAS, your network, your way. Good luck to you.

Patrick M. Wilson
Victoria, BC Canada
QNAP TS-470 Pro w/ 4 * Western Digital WD30EFRX WD Reds (RAID5) - - Single 8.1TB Storage Pool FW: QTS 4.2.0 Build 20151023 - Kali Linux v1.06 (64bit)
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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by schumaku » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:28 pm

pilgrim_cc1 wrote:Hi, not really and that was the original question the myCloud service chooses the IP it uses, which in my scenario it that of my router, not the address I have assigned.
Of course..

pilgrim_cc1 wrote:if I could change this manually I would be fine but I can see no way to do this. If the wizard offered the choice or I configure it via the OS or at the MyCloud service then it would all work, however I cannot.
It can be only the originating IP address to be updated dynamically - here, in other DDNS services, and in the RFC.

More complex DDNS scenarios need to be driven on a router - much more considering you are in a semi-static environment (I assume your IP subnet assigned does rarely change ... would be a management nightmare).

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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by fantomas » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:16 am

pilgrim_cc1 wrote:So if I want to access the NAS I simply use 88.x.x.132:80/8080 etc and away we go, works perfectly web server on the NAS will However the MyCloud wizard is insistent on setting up the NAS 88.x.x.136 (which is my router address) and I don't want it to do that. I understand why it does so but would like to be able to specify this myself.


So when your NAS accesses internet, the connections come from IP 88.x.x.136. Your router must translate your NAS' internal IP to 88.x.x.132, then it will work properly. This is something you or your ISP have to do.
experience with administration of UN*X (mostly linux) and applications on internet servers since 1994...

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Re: myQNAPCloud IP address

Post by reinob » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:13 pm

@pilgrim_cc1,

If you ever manage to figure this out, please post any relevant information. I need something different (basically to update the myQNAPcloud address from a non-QNAP device), but I guess both solutions will be similar.

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